quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Doing a very small amount of reading on this subject this morning, I see that the TSA is no longer requiring separate containers for rifles and ammo. However, concerning Africa, and specifically South Africa, since the majority of flights terminate in or transit thru Jo-Berg, a little more research reveals two quick points.

1) South African Law requires ammo and firearms in separate containers. Specifically it says this law applies for DEPARTURE from SA. I suppose that means ARRIVING with ammo and weapons in same container is fine.

2) If flying on South African Airlines, (I usually fly Delta), their company policy requires separation of ammo and firearms into different containers. Of note, the SAA website also prohibits placing the firearms case in the same bag as the "regular" checked bag (their terminology).

I didn't check the others as I refuse to go through the UK, if at all possible. I have heard of guys traveling with ammo and rifles in the same case, but I've always been asked to confirm that they are separate.

From what I read on South African Airlines website the information above is completely wrong. Nothing in SAA firearm policies say you can't put firearms in regular baggage (of course it must be locking.) Also nothing says that ammo can not go in the same bag as a firearm. I have flown with them several times and have never had a problem with these issues. I assume SSA knows and follows the laws of their home country. Laws and airline rules are of course subject to change at any time. As of today however I assume SAA's website reflects both the law and SAA'S policies.

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Doing a very small amount of reading on this subject this morning, I see that the TSA is no longer requiring separate containers for rifles and ammo. However, concerning Africa, and specifically South Africa, since the majority of flights terminate in or transit thru Jo-Berg, a little more research reveals two quick points.

1) South African Law requires ammo and firearms in separate containers. Specifically it says this law applies for DEPARTURE from SA. I suppose that means ARRIVING with ammo and weapons in same container is fine.

2) If flying on South African Airlines, (I usually fly Delta), their company policy requires separation of ammo and firearms into different containers. Of note, the SAA website also prohibits placing the firearms case in the same bag as the "regular" checked bag (their terminology).

I didn't check the others as I refuse to go through the UK, if at all possible. I have heard of guys traveling with ammo and rifles in the same case, but I've always been asked to confirm that they are separate.

From what I read on South African Airlines website the information above is completely wrong. Nothing in SAA firearm policies say you can't put firearms in regular baggage (of course it must be locking.) Also nothing says that ammo can not go in the same bag as a firearm. I have flown with them several times and have never had a problem with these issues. I assume SSA knows and follows the laws of their home country. Laws and airline rules are of course subject to change at any time. As of today however I assume SAA's website reflects both the law and SAA'S policies.

Here is the SAA website concerning weapons carry and ammunition. It clearly states that firearms cannot be placed in checked baggage and that ammo must be separated from the firearms.

http://www.flysaa.com/us/en/fl...ge/firearms_new.html

Here is the bottom line on traveling with firearms and ammunition. It seems that each airline and country has it's own interpretation of the rules. Also, each person working the check in counter further has their own interpretation of their company's interpretation of the rules. These interpretations change on a continual basis. I don't know that a list of hard and fast rules can be made concerning the transport of firearms and ammunition at this point.

There do seem to be some procedures that will fall within the acceptable guidelines "MOST OF THE TIME". Those procedures appear, at least to me, to be 1) Firearms packed separate from checked baggage in hard sided case and 2) Ammo packed in original container, in checked baggage, separate from the weapon. Deviations from these 2 procedures seem to be acceptable by some airlines, agents, countries, SOME of the time. But is seems that complying with these 2 procedures is acceptable "ALL" of the time. I have however, been forced by Iberia Airlines, or rather the check in agent for Iberia Airlines, on one occasion in July of 2006, departing Jo-Berg for Madrid Spain, to remove the ammo from my checked baggage and placed in a separate locked bag that traveled by itself back to DFW.

So far, I've not had my weapons or ammo go missing through a connection. Reading the various airline regulations, it appears that the transfer of baggage from flight to flight is sometimes held up if the weapon or ammo packaging is not to their liking. If this is the case, the ammo or weapon will be pulled from the flight until they satisfy themselves that everything is OK. In today's world of paranoia concerning weapons, especially around airports and airplanes, I choose not to push the acceptable boundaries but rather, go with the flow if you will.

I am a medically retired pilot for American Airlines. That doesn't give me any special insight to what is or is not required for transport of firearms or ammunition. But I do know the level of perceived authority that airline agents impose on travelers from time to time. All it takes is for 1 agent to take exception to how your items are packaged and the result will be misconnected weapons or bags. I've had an agent refuse me access to the aircraft before while I was in uniform, with my ID, with my name on the Flight Crew List for the specific flight that was departing, with the aircraft number, flight number, and flight plan paperwork in my hands until she got ready to "clear" the crew to board the aircraft. I used to fight these abuses of "power" but finally decided it isn't worth it. No one at the airlines are interested in disciplining agents who set up their own "Kingdoms".

If traveling say from DFW to DIA to go Elk hunting where you have no connecting flight, you only deal with the 1 Airline agent who checks you in and 1 TSA Official. If there is a problem with the way your ammo or weapons are packed, it can be addressed right then and there in your presence. But if your destination requires international travel and especially connections, there will be agents that handle your baggage other than the people you checked in with. When this happens to run afoul of one of those agents and you are not immediately available to rectify the situation, that's when your bag gets pulled until "they" sort it out. Believe me, "they" are not interested in sorting things out with your bag at the same level of interest that you would be. At this point, the overriding issue to the agents sorting out the perceived problem with your weapon and ammo packaging is getting the door to your airplane closed 5 minutes prior to departure time. This is what they are evaluated on and motivated by. You can parse the phrases of the stated regulations on carrying firearms and ammo to differentiate between shall, should, may, may not, etc. etc... But the bottom line is that if they are not satisfied, the bag is pulled and the door is shut on time. So, buck the system at your own peril!

If you haven't seen Americase's test drop video, you need to take a look!
Americase video

Now think about some one "Toss'n" your case!

It appears SAA has two different policies posted on their website and it depends where you look what the policy says.

I looked at SSA poilcy number 1 which says nothing about not putting firearms in with regular baggage or packing ammo with the firearm.

and Todd was looking at SAA policy number 2 which is much more restrictive.

Since policy number 2 has the word "new" in the web address I assume SAA has changed to this more restrictive policy since the last time I flew with them