Looking at the Army Navy rifle on the Champlin Arms site that Bigfivejack drew our attention to got me to thinking. Are prices at these dealer sites usually negotiable, or are these usually fixed prices? I know there is no hard and fast rule but what are your experiences? How much less might you offer? If the price was a steal I know you would jump at it and pay the asking price immediatly, but in a normal type offering what would you do? Would you pay the asking price, have the gun shipped on approval and then negotiate? Or would you negotiate from the photos and description then have it sent on approval?

If you are going to negotiate, you do so before getting the gun sent on approval. Set the ground rules beforehand.

If you had a gun sent from me on approval and then once you had it, started to negotiate, I'd tell you to send it straight back on principle.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
If you are going to negotiate, you do so before getting the gun sent on approval. Set the ground rules beforehand.

If you had a gun sent from me on approval and then once you had it, started to negotiate, I'd tell you to send it straight back on principle.

I agree 100%!!!

Back to Champlins, I have bought several doubles from George and he is a straight shooter.

I would call him, get more particulars on the gun, and then ask what's the "best" he could do. George and I have had an understanding that once he comes back with his "best" price, I take it or leave it. None of this pussy, chicken shit "well how about..". Same way I like to conduct business when selling.

Another thing is that if you choose to make an offer, express it in the form of an offer. "I'd like to make an offer of $xxxx". When I'm selling a gun, I hate it when asked "would you take $xxxx?". Been there too many times when you think you're accepting an offer only to hear "let me think about it" or "well, would you take $xxxx?".

You can't go wrong buying from Champlins.

Good luck!

Don

I'll just say I agree, with Don, and 500. George will usually "dickier" a little, but on a good clean double on a sought after caliber dont expect a fire sale. I will say what you buy for your money is someone that will stand behind the gun, and Champlins gives you true service after the sale. Good folks!

Ed

I would agree. If I were not buying new, Champlin's would be my first choice to shop.
If I were selling OR buying from a private party (I have bought two here in the past six months and was happy with both) I would ask three day inspection and the right to fire four or six shots to check regulation.
I would ask the seller if a counter offer would be in order, private or business. The "Wiggle Room" thing. Once I inspect it, I would either buy it for the agreed price or return it and explain why. Unless misrepresented, once it arrives it is a done deal.

JMHO

Rich
DRSS

That particular rifle is priced at the bottom of it's worth IMO! As others have said you can ask for his best price on it, and what he tells you will be bottom, no need to ask further.

George is a stand up guy, and knows his double rifles! What he tells you about the rifle you can take to the bank because his word is pure gold! I'll just say this, if I had the desposable cash right now you wouldn't have to worry about that rifle, because it would already be in my hands!

Seams high to me for a non ejector with cut barrels and what appears to be a wire brushed receiver with no engraving.

But, as I say with all guns, it's worth what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. End of story.

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Soter:
Seams high to me for a non ejector with cut barrels and what appears to be a wire brushed receiver with no engraving.

My thoughts also Don. I'd look around for awhile if I had 17,000+ to play with on a purchase of a DR.

If I had the cash, it would already be enroute to my FFL holder's shop. Very nice rifle.

Rich
DRSS

Ask George to give you all stock dimensions. A lot of the older guns were like older American double shotguns with too much drop at the heel to be comfortable. I find that anything more than 2.5 inches is difficult for me to shoot.

Good to know.

If I get a BLNE, cut and brushed I know who to PM

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Soter:
Seams high to me for a non ejector with cut barrels and what appears to be a wire brushed receiver with no engraving.

My thoughts also Don. I'd look around for awhile if I had 17,000+ to play with on a purchase of a DR.

+ 1 Agreed


At that level, worth looking around.

Thanks guys. I wasn't planning on buying this particular rifle. I was just wondering what a typical transaction was like buying on line from a dealer. What do you think a reasonable offer would be on a used double before insulting the seller? 10% less? 15% less?

I would also recomend George. I just purchased my first double from him two months ago. George is good to deal with because one he is VERY knowledgable and twohe tells you how it is. It really depends on the rifle. What I mean is how desirable is the gun and how does that relate to the price it's being sold for? Lidelock or boxlock, ejector or extractor, big name or not, best quality or plain, auto safe or manual, line of pull, weight, outer condition of rifle, more importantly codition of chambers and bores, year made, history of rifle, calibre, originality of rifle (was the stock replaced, were the barrels shortened, reregulated, ect). Calibre is a big one. As a friend would say when a .600 comes up for sale don't bargan....write a check....because if you don't someone else will. Not all calibres are like that, but some like the .450s are very popular and desirable. A .450 boxlock extractor with good bores in good condition will start at $20,000ish and go up depending on the various factors mentioned to about $35,000ish. The same rifle in ejector will likely start at $28,000ish and go up to $45,000ish again depending on many factors. Sidelock rifles will likely start around $35,000-40,000ish and go way on up depending on all the factors involved. The same rifle in .450/400 may be $3,000-5,000 less. These prices are of course ball parks for English prewar doubles. A relative order of worth desirability in regard to calibre seems to be: 600ne, .577ne, .500ne, .450ne, .470ne, .475s, .450/400ne, .375ne, ect

Brett

I don't know if I would say you would ever get a "Deal" from George. He's a very astute salesman.

What you will get from George is his reputation as a man who will stand behind a deal and when you purchase a rifle/shotgun from George you will know exactly the condition of the item you are buying.

I stood in George's booth at DSC and told him that. He agreed. Honest to a fault!

Hi Gents:
If you want it, buy it. I say that if a double seems expensive today the price will be just right tomorrow and a steal the day after that. I've paid too much for many of my doubles over the years but have never lost money on them when I moved them the next year or in ten years. And, the ones I've sold I wish I had today to sell now. Some of my bore rifles I will move soon (and some nitro rifles, too) to upgrade my modest collection. Some may scoff at the price of my 4-bore but how many were made? Again, if you want it, buy it. I've never looked back after I made the transition from Winchesters to double rifles.
Cheers all,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
Thanks guys. I wasn't planning on buying this particular rifle. I was just wondering what a typical transaction was like buying on line from a dealer. What do you think a reasonable offer would be on a used double before insulting the seller? 10% less? 15% less?

I don't believe there is any standard price point or discount that dealers are willing to negotiate to. Too many variables in guns and dealers. If you like a gun make an offer on it, thats how it all starts. I will agree though, some of the best "bargins" I've gotten in doubles I've paid full price for.

And Cal,
I wouldn't describe any collection which includes a 4 bore as modest!

quote:

Originally posted by gatsby:

I don't believe there is any standard price point or discount that dealers are willing to negociate to. Too many variables in guns and dealers. If you like a gun make an offer on it, thats how it all starts. I will agree though, some of the best "bargins" I've gotten in doubles I've paid full price for.

"some of the best "bargins" I've gotten in doubles I've paid full price for."


That makes 2 of us.


And has also provided some of the most amusing anecdotes, one of which was doing the right
thing by the guy looking at the gun and giving him some space, he was uuming and aaring over the price - which at the time was damn cheap for a 450/400 - anyway, he "had" to get a discount so offered 15% less. Of course was told no, so walked away, gun was snapped up 10 seconds later by me.

The guy asked me why I bought it for full price. He didn't like the answer which was it was worth at the time twice what it was offered for.

Sometimes trying to get a discount can cost you a bargain.

Rusty:
I have been able to negotiate deals with George to my satisfaction. Sensibly asked and received. The fact that I have negotiated 6 purchase/sales with him speaks to our mutual respect. Getting ready to possibly take the plunge again with one of his rifles not yet advertised. Will post if I purchase it. With the exception of my 2 custom fit rifles I have never had a rifle fit me like this one. God has been very kind to me.

Dutch

Lot of wisdom here! Buy the gun you want, not the gun that is a good deal! Obviously you don't want to pay a premium price if you can avoid it, so, just keep an eye out at the main dealers. Champlin's is obviously one, Hallowell's is another (I bought my K-gun from them). Also visit gunbroker, Gunsinternational, Cabela's Gun Library etc. That should give you a good feel for the prices that these are going for. Also, the Classifieds here!
Good luck, Peter.

Great Dutch! Be sure and post some pictures!

Champlin, Westley Richards, and Guns International are good ones to check on a regular basis.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Soter:
Seams high to me for a non ejector with cut barrels and what appears to be a wire brushed receiver with no engraving.

Absolutely...5-7 years ago this might have been a $8000 rifle. $17,500? Not in this economic climate. Honestly, for a savings of $7500, and in spite of its weight, that Lyon & Lyon hammer gun is singing to me!

Rusty:
Will do when I get it. Going there on the 23-24th this month. It is an almost new Army & Navy 450-400 3 1/4 with 15 inch lop and perfect bores George had at Dallas. This gun has been eating at me like a fever since then. I already have a sidelock 450-400 3 1/4 but you always need a back-up, especially one that fits and, according to George, it is very accurate. I trust George.


Dutch