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Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:

quote:

In the British DR market, "rare" does not automatically equate to value (it isn't a Patternson or a Walker), but sometimes it does. Given condition, caliber, quality, and rarity

Amen...I have a really nice Purdey .369. Near perfect condition, extra finish, pre-war...worth good money...BUT, the same thing in .375 H&H flanged would easily top it on the market by 40-50%. Even with the .369 being a hundred times more rare (23 Purdey guns made in this caliber in all) and it's almost exactly the same thing as the .375 H&H flanged.

Your point is absolutely correct, rare doesn't always mean more valuable (does sometimes). - Kudos for some sensible dialogue being injected into this thread!

I think we can conclude that given the rarity and diversity of pre-war DRs....each and every one is priced based on a gun by gun analysis....there is no "Blue book" so to speak.

JW

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Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:

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Originally posted by gatsby:
"If it was a BP Conversion, it wouldnt be worth 20K"

Are you saying that the value of the gun is in the rarity of its original proof marks?

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Originally posted by gatsby:
Safarikid,
You made a statement that a rifle similar to yours with original black powder proofs that had been nitro proofed would be worth less than 25% of the value of your gun. I believe that is an arguable statement.

No, it isn't. Re-proving a black powder proof game gun to nitro can enhance value sometimes, but this isn't a shotgun. The reverse is true with double rifles. A BPE wasn't built to be a nitro, and the practice of re-proving them to nitro is a mistake that the market hammers pretty hard. Compared to original nitros, the market discounts BPEs and NFBs substantially to begin with.

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Originally posted by jaz:
Basically this is a BPE, nitro proved to the lightest nitro load

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Originally posted by skb:
The weight of the gun tells the story, 9&1/2lbs.....thats a nitro for black load for sure.

This if factually incorrect.

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Originally posted by jaz:
I have a Holland Hammerless Backaction .577, made for the Nizam of Hyderadab (sic), fully engraved cased, tools, moulde, and HEAVIER.

Well, yeah, a typical .577 BPE. Not rare in any way, and never will be. Apples and oranges.

First off, BPE proof and NFB proof are one and the same, which many don't seem to understand. This rifle is neither, nor is it a transitional piece between BPE/NFB and full nitro - the 100 Cordite/750 grain bullet .577 NEs were already being built when this gun was made.

The maximum Nitro for Black loads for the .577 3" Black Powder Express used a 650 grain metal base (gas check) lead bullet that Eley and Kynoch loaded over 77 and 75 grains Cordite respectively. This rifle was built for the .577 3" Nitro Express Light Cordite cartridge - 83 grains Cordite and a 650 grain nickel jacketed bullet (NFBs were never loaded with jacketed bullets, with a few extremely rare exceptions). This cartridge is a step up from the .577 BPE/NFB.

Some have said that the weight of the piece make it obvious that it is a converted BPE. That isn't true. The .577 BPEs are usually HEAVIER than this.

I wonder how many actually had a close look at the photos. This is an unusual model that Westley made only a tiny handful of, and I can't remember seeing a similar model from another English maker. When you handle one of these, it's obvious that Westley went to great pains to build it as light as possible for caliber - even the photos of the ribs tell that tale clearly - which also explains the cartridge choice. This was built as a special purpose piece - a lightweight tiger smasher. As such, this model would have been rare to begin with, and the crisis precipitated by the errors in the "ban" enforcement a few years later ensured that far fewer were built than would perhaps have been otherwise.

Mickey's use of the term "unique" is spot on. It's a weird duck....strange, unusual, fine, and RARE. I can remember seeing three in 20 years, but I think I may have seen the same one twice. Moreover, this gun appears to have been built to a high standard of quality and looks to be in fine shape.

In the British DR market, "rare" does not automatically equate to value (it isn't a Patterson or a Walker), but sometimes it does. Given condition, caliber, quality, and rarity...well, I'm sure SafariKid has a number in mind. True comparable sales are too far between to have any utility. Only a willing buyer and a willing seller, both well educated on the piece, can set a final price. While I make no argument as to it's market value, it's silly to compare it to something that isn't comparable at all, as has been done here. Apples and oranges.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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I think we can conclude that given the rarity and diversity of pre-war DRs....each and every one is priced based on a gun by gun analysis....there is no "Blue book" so to speak.

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Enough fighting, the rifle is well overpriced in anyone's eye that knows about real rifles.The rifle is very nice but won't bring near that in the market today.

577NitroExpress
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Francotte .470 Nitro Express



If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming...

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Originally posted by Jim Manion:
safarikid

For as unique as your rifle is, ever thought about using one of the big firearm auction houses that attracts more than US buyers?

If somehow you could dig up some of its history, that is the kind of thing that drives auction prices up.

Just a thought.

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Originally posted by 470EDDY:
If you have not sold this rifle, could you please private message me so we can communicate off line. I think I know this gun and I did see it at SCI with Cabela's

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Originally posted by 500grains:
My guess is that there is only one of these for sale on this planet at the present time. With such a unique item in extremely short supply (one only), no one can know what it is actually worth until a sale takes place. It's not like a Rem 870 that we can look up on gunbroker.com and see what 20 of them sold for last week.

Recently a guy in my neighborhood sold an old piece of crap house. I thought it was worth $175K. The real estate agent thought that someone might wander in from California high on coke and pay $225K or $250K. But the house sold to a local for $325K and the buyer is delighted to have gotten it.

So what does any of us know about the value of a unique item until it sells?

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Originally posted by 470EDDY:
If you have not sold this rifle, could you please private message me so we can communicate off line. I think I know this gun and I did see it at SCI with Cabela's

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Originally posted by danlfraser:
I believe that 4 bore got around 27500pds at auction and after probably 15-17% off of that he did not get 60K.Enough again, the rifle is very nice and rare but it won't bring that money.

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Originally posted by danlfraser:
I believe that 4 bore got around 27500pds at auction and after probably 15-17% off of that he did not get 60K.Enough again, the rifle is very nice and rare but it won't bring that money.

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Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
And I hope for 100K...Just makes the rest of ours go up!

JW

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A HAPPY BUYER DROVE IN TODAY AND PICKED HER UP....A SAD SELLER WATCHED IT GO!....NOW WHAT DO I GET?