Hello all,

Does anyone know if Factory records exist for James Macnaughton Double Rifles? ?

I snagged this one and I'm trying to find some History. I've never owned a Macnaughton. Its a 577-500 No. 2 bpe.

I didn't expect to get 2 doubles in the same week, but I did. As I was buying the W.W.Greener at the gun show, this one arrived from an earlier auction bid. Didn't even remember bidding in that auction.









Below is the auction description. As you can see it was listed as a 450bpe, which I really wanted to go with my other 450's. However, when it arrived I was surprised to find it wasn't a 450bpe. My 450bpe cartridges dropped deep into the chambers. Same thing happened when I tried 500bpe cartridges in the chambers. It was something much bigger. A chamber cast discovered it was actually a 577-500 No.2 bpe. Not sure if that makes this a better value, or a wash.

I'm hoping that some detail History can be found. I love History.

The name is now owned by John Dickson:

https://www.john-dickson.com/gun-history

Hello SKB,

Thanks for the reply.

If you click that link, you'll see its "coming soon" (under construction) and nothing is available at this time.

I did send an email inquiry, but haven't heard back yet. I know that they bought the name, but would like to know if they also have the records. Anyone know for sure?

Call them. I did.
Cal

I was lucky that my brother was in Edinburgh at the time I had two under-lever hammerless .450"s. The eldest gentleman working there brought out the day book and I was privileged to all information plus my brother's 100 photographs of their store, guns and the day book.

Advertised as a .450 and then becomes a 577-500? I never trust the auction houses to get anything correct. I always call and have them visually inspect it while I'm on the phone. Morphy's, Poulon, Holt's as well as Gavin Gardner will do that.

I think you scored well on this one Buckstix!

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
".... Advertised as a .450 and then becomes a 577-500? I never trust the auction houses to get anything correct. I always call and have them visually inspect it while I'm on the phone. Morphy's, Poulon, Holt's as well as Gavin Gardner will do that.

I think you scored well on this one Buckstix! ...."

Hello Dutch44,

Thanks for the reply.

Although I wanted a 450 bpe, and not a 577-500 No.2, (especially since I just bought the 450 bpe W.W.Greener) when I called to tell them my disappointment and ask for instructions on how they wanted me to return the rifle, they asked me if a $500 refund might offset my disappointment. It did.

Tonight I've set my alarm for 2:00 am and I intend to follow Cal's suggestion and call Dickson to see if they have any Macnaughton records that would tell me about this rifle's History.

Best of success. The Henry records were very complete.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Call them. I did.
Cal

Hello Cal,

Thanks for the reply.

Well, its 3:45am here in Wisconsin, and 9:45am at the John Dickson office in Scotland.

I just got off the phone from speaking with them. Unfortunately they told me that the majority of the Macnaughton Records were lost in a fire long ago. They said they only had one Field Record Volume with limited information. Upon their searching that Volume while I waited on the phone, they informed me that it did not contain my serial number.

Unfortunately that's the end of the line for finding any additional History about this rifle.

If there are any Macnaughton experts out there, please chime in.

Hello all,

Thanks for the reply.

This Macnaughton has an unusual feature. (see pic) Does anyone know the meaning of the "stars" stamped on the breech end of barrels? They are located almost exactly at the center of each chamber. They appear to have been stamped "after" the last refinishing / re-blackening based on the raised edges.



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* 10/20/18 SHOOTING UPDATE *
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Although I never did measure the chamber cast. I got some "new" 577-500 No.2 cases and tested them in the chambers. They easily fit - even when loaded - so I fired them. (see below) I tried slippng some of the .511 dia bullets into the fired brass, and it was a very close "slide-fit" - perfect!

I'll test some more loads with slightly more powder to increase velocity. Pressures with all 3 loads were light with easy extraction with the fingers.

I hate paper patching. I use that only as a last resort. Based on my results below, I don't think I'll need to go there.

Here's the results of today's shooting. I tried 3 different loads. The gas-checked bullets were both .511" dia and the Woodleigh SP bullets were .510" dia. This rifle really likes the Woodleigh bullets. I think all went well.

Buckstix, agree with your assessment on the Woodleighs. Excellent group. I'd be interested in knowing what an extra 2 grains would do to your 435 GC load? Bet it may surprise you with a coming together so to speak.

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
Buckstix, agree with your assessment on the Woodleighs. Excellent group. I'd be interested in knowing what an extra 2 grains would do to your 435 GC load? Bet it may surprise you with a coming together so to speak.

Hello Dutch44

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I'm loading them now. I will try 54g IMR 4198 with the 440g Woodleighs and the 435g gc bullets.

** UPDATE **

Here is the results. I think I've found this rifle's favorite load.