I hear a lot of people say "I would buy a Chapuis if they were not made in France.

Mmmmmmm???? Lets see....

We have been to War with the British...

We have been to War with the Germans, TWICE...

The French were our ALLIES all 3 times....

Think About It.

I think we went to war against the British twice.

A war before my time will not be a deciding factor in my choice in rifle, but boy those frogs.

I've had only great expiriances in France, good hunting freindly people (I don't know where they got the reputation for being snobs) I learned to like wine there, and as a culture they have a strong hunting tradtion.
My two double rifles are German and Austrian but I would choose a French double over a Brit because you would get more bang for the buck. If I where to choose one being the best of the best I'd go for Hartmann & Weiss.
Some years ago I bought a Holland & Holland shotgun so that I would have that ultimate sporting gun yet I just can't get excited about it. I'd trade it for a good French big bore double in a blink.

I struggled with this idea too. I am not a big fan of anything from France. I have met several Frenchmen and even hunted with one once in Zimbabwe. These guys were great and a lot of fun to share a campfire with. I therefore made the assumption that regardless of where the rifles are made, they are still rifles and the people building them must have a love for shooting and hunting just like I do. I choose to support them and had no issue giving them my hard earned greenbacks. I do however respect those who choose not to purchase a Chaupis due to political reasons.

Here is another thing to ponder. I can’t stand the politics in California. The laws and people who put them in place disgust me. Having said that…I still own two Searcy doubles and even consider Frank Martinez a friend despite the fact that both come from this terrible state. See…they aren’t all bad!

I have DRs from England Germany and France! I have no problem with where a DR is made as long as it shows quality, craftsmanship, and shoots where it is suppose too. If you say you would kick a beautiful woman out of your bed because she happens to be French then you are either very gay or a very big lier and you have my pity because you will never learn to appreciate the finer things in LIFE...

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I hear a lot of people say "I would buy a Chapuis if they were not made in France.

Mmmmmmm???? Lets see....

We have been to War with the British...

We have been to War with the Germans, TWICE...

The French were our ALLIES all 3 times....

Think About It.

It doesn't really matter. The French make some good quality guns.

Uh, Tony...I'm sure you just forgot. After independence from Britain, America's first war with a european power was the one that broke out with France in 1798 (The Quasi-War, 1798-1800). Although undeclared and almost all of it's engagements naval, it was the real deal nonetheless. Also, Eisenhower's forces briefly fought Vichy forces in North Africa in 1942. Although lopsided, the naval battle of Casablanca was a corker.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

There is also the view held by some that if France hadn't come to our aid in the revolution against good old George III, we would have not BEEN an independent country. And they note that when the French asked for our aid a few years later against the Brits, we turned our backs on them, the people who had helped us most when we really needed help.

There are NO simon-pure folks in politics, us included. So, though I am a combo of Belgian and Native American bloods, with smatterings of others in the woodpile, I own and enjoy rifles from just danged near everywhere,

One thing about French arms, particularly their military ones, though they are not always beautiful, they have often led the way in practical innovations and they are usually hell-for-stout.

One probably will have more fun and more satisfaction if he judges the gun in his hand by its own attributes, not those of the political environment from which it happens to come. Just like us, it didn't get to choose its own parents...

Belgium so I'm out of the political stuff.

JPK

Ditto Belgium

308Sako,

We're loosing percentage fast in the poll post.

Too bad others don't enjoy the bounty of Belgium as we do!

JPK

TThe only problem with the French is that they are percievd as such chickenshits. I always heard their motto we "WE SURRENDER". They make fun of Americans until they need protected from bullies, then we are all of a sudden treir best buddies.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdoggy700:
TThe only problem with the French is that they are percievd as such chickenshits. I always heard their motto we "WE SURRENDER". They make fun of Americans until they need protected from bullies, then we are all of a sudden treir best buddies.

Well, yeah, that's the popular perception here. They know it, and that's one of the reasons they don't like us very much. I wouldn't argue that they aren't a pain in the ass sometimes, but, historically speaking, the perception isn't accurate.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400Nitro

Mark I did not know about the French Naval thing, however if it was not "declared" then it was not a war, just a "Police Action".

As to the Vichy Forces they were not the original French Government troops.

Heck ya'll have been eating "French" fries for years, why not buy a Frfench double.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdoggy700:
TThe only problem with the French is that they are percievd as such chickenshits. I always heard their motto we "WE SURRENDER". They make fun of Americans until they need protected from bullies, then we are all of a sudden treir best buddies.

I have several friends who are ex-"Legionaires".
Perhaps one day I can introduce you to them and you can tell them that to their faces. (I'll sell spectator tickets in advance......)

Legionaires loved France so much that they left.

JPK

Still, it's the gutless French governments that have tarnished France's reutation and not soldiers' or sailors' valor in the field. Not so different from our gutless governments and valorous soldiers.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I hear a lot of people say "I would buy a Chapuis if they were not made in France.

Mmmmmmm???? Lets see....

We have been to War with the British...

We have been to War with the Germans, TWICE...

The French were our ALLIES all 3 times....

Think About It.

Past favors don't replace current behavior!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

Past favors don't replace current behavior!!!!!!!!

I'll second that. Politically speaking France is not what it used to be. They are at the forefront of nations that think they can have it all in terms of dealings with other countries. They have more in common with Russia than any other. They're double dealers.

If you step out of the present, shouldn't we all have a problem with Germany?

Many of us talk about best value, 1st DR etc...

The best value out there now in a new gun is French and it's not a Chapuis. It's made by Demas, now owned by Verney-Carron, but you can't get them here, yet, if ever. There are 2 here that I know of and they're name brand guns with the importer's moniker. On top of the importer there's a middleman in Belgium who acts as a facilitator that is also getting a cut so the guns are now too expensive for what they are. Then again, maybe not

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
400Nitro

Mark I did not know about the French Naval thing, however if it was not "declared" then it was not a war, just a "Police Action".

As to the Vichy Forces they were not the original French Government troops.

Heck ya'll have been eating "French" fries for years, why not buy a Frfench double.

I eat deep fat fried potatoes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alberta Canuck,
I said they were (perceived) as chickenshits,not that they actually are. I do know that alot of French people do tend to poke fun at Americans as being over eating, over indulging slobs. Lets not get into an uproar. I will try to be nice.

...living just over the hill from Ferlach (Austria) and a valley next to Italy - old folks in our places say: "If you want a rifle, buy German/Austrian one and if you want a shotgun buy Italian one." France is just too far away for them I guess.

The action from Finland and th barrels made in Germany, Assembled in Italy. And in spite of my name I'm more Swiss than anything. Probably a German in the woodpile somewhere! Packy

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Legionaires loved France so much that they left.

JPK

Still, it's the gutless French governments that have tarnished France's reutation and not soldiers' or sailors' valor in the field. Not so different from our gutless governments and valorous soldiers.

Funny,I thought we were discussing whether they should be "diss'ed" as cowards or not, not where they preferred to live.

Their troops are definitely NOT cowards in my experience.

As to where one prefers to live, I guess all countries provide to the mass of folks who live outside their nations of birth/citizenship. When I moved from Edmonton to Calgary, there were reportedly close to 400,000 Americans and ex-Americans living in that one province, Alberta. Probably the highest density was in Calgary.


One of my Legionaire friends was born in Rumania, served on the eastern front as a German conscript, then joined the Legion to evade Russian capture. He fought in many places, including Indo China, then made his way across Cambodia/Laos to the sea at the fall of Dien Bien Phu, and spent a couple of years in a DP camp before being allowed to immigrate to Canada. A survivor, YES. A coward? I hardly think so......


Anyway, many French guns are very nice pieces indeed. Generally, I would be no more ashamed to use one of them than the products of any other country.

AlbertaCannuck,

Hell, I thought we were talinkg about the French.

JPK

The enlisted men of the French Foreign Legion are not French, hence the name "foreign legion".

They come from just about every country, and their reasons for enlisting are their own. The Legion provides a safe haven for these individuals provided they pass muster and keep their noses clean. The training is some of the toughest in the world.

If I recall correctly, the enlistment is for a 5 year period. Afterh this initial 5 year period (or perhapos after a second 5 year stint), they can choose to reenlist, go back to their old lives or become Citizens of France with a new identity and French passport.

The French care not from whence they came or under what circumstances so long as they make it as soldiers in the Foreign Legion.

The Foreign Legion almost pulled off a successful coup against the government (de Gaulle, I believe), and their power was seriously curtailed after that. They were also posted outside of France.

Yes, these are some very tough men, but they are not French.

The ex Americans living in Canada are mostly draft dodgers and other assorted cowards. In fact, during every war fought by the US going back to the revolutionary war, Canada has served as a haven for those fleeing from military service.

Now, as to buying a firearm made in France, my thinking is by all means. France has a great hunting tradition and counts many heads of state as avid hunters. Second, you cannot judge the people of France by the citizens of Paris. Parisians hate Americans, hate the British, hate Jews, and well, just about everyone else except fellow Parisians. I would hate to have people judge the US by thinking that the occupants of DC were typical Americans.

And lastly, can you imagine what a burr it puts under those socialist saddles to have a company in France making firearms? Used by Americans?

Piss off a socialist - buy a Chapuis.

manion, you truly have a way with words. i love your final line.

showbart - contrary to your ideas MERKEL is far and away the best value in double rifles today

quote:

Originally posted by Chris E Nelson:
I have DRs from England Germany and France! I have no problem with where a DR is made as long as it shows quality, craftsmanship, and shoots where it is suppose too. If you say you would kick a beautiful woman out of your bed because she happens to be French then you are either very gay or a very big lier and you have my pity because you will never learn to appreciate the finer things in LIFE...

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
The enlisted men of the French Foreign Legion are not French, hence the name "foreign legion".

They come from just about every country, and their reasons for enlisting are their own. The Legion provides a safe haven for these individuals provided they pass muster and keep their noses clean. The training is some of the toughest in the world.

If I recall correctly, the enlistment is for a 5 year period. Afterh this initial 5 year period (or perhapos after a second 5 year stint), they can choose to reenlist, go back to their old lives or become Citizens of France with a new identity and French passport.

The French care not from whence they came or under what circumstances so long as they make it as soldiers in the Foreign Legion.

The Foreign Legion almost pulled off a successful coup against the government (de Gaulle, I believe), and their power was seriously curtailed after that. They were also posted outside of France.

Yes, these are some very tough men, but they are not French.

The ex Americans living in Canada are mostly draft dodgers and other assorted cowards. In fact, during every war fought by the US going back to the revolutionary war, Canada has served as a haven for those fleeing from military service.

Now, as to buying a firearm made in France, my thinking is by all means. France has a great hunting tradition and counts many heads of state as avid hunters. Second, you cannot judge the people of France by the citizens of Paris. Parisians hate Americans, hate the British, hate Jews, and well, just about everyone else except fellow Parisians. I would hate to have people judge the US by thinking that the occupants of DC were typical Americans.

And lastly, can you imagine what a burr it puts under those socialist saddles to have a company in France making firearms? Used by Americans?

Piss off a socialist - buy a Chapuis.

Many wrong assumptions in this post. Just a sample, French are normally prohibited to join the Legion since 1830 when it was created as the Legio Etrangère. They had to declare themselves as Belgian, Swiss, any nationality but not French. in fact, half the Legionnaires have always been French. The legion was stationed in Algeria in Sidi bel Abbes since day one of its creation and went back to Aubagne, France after 1962.
I stop here...

http://www.chapuis-armes.com/Videos.html

Chapuis are nice firearms but there is much more here

Forget all the other prior history concerning the French and the rest..Let's look at the facts surrounding the "Oil For Food Program" shepparded by the UN.. If one looks at the facts surrounding that.. The Corruption and Greed.. One would be hard pressed to buy any Double/Rifle/Ammo from many European Counties with this exception..The Brit's..They have stood by us ..Spilled Blood.. As a matter of fact one could make the case that the excessive Blood spilled in Iraq is directly related to the "Oil for Food Program".. If the Pre-War sanctions against Sod were enforced by all as intended Iraq/Sod would have been a brief footnote in History..
AK

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Legionaires loved France so much that they left.

JPK

Still, it's the gutless French governments that have tarnished France's reutation and not soldiers' or sailors' valor in the field. Not so different from our gutless governments and valorous soldiers.

Funny,I thought we were discussing whether they should be "diss'ed" as cowards or not, not where they preferred to live.

Their troops are definitely NOT cowards in my experience.

As to where one prefers to live, I guess all countries provide to the mass of folks who live outside their nations of birth/citizenship. When I moved from Edmonton to Calgary, there were reportedly close to 400,000 Americans and ex-Americans living in that one province, Alberta. Probably the highest density was in Calgary.


One of my Legionaire friends was born in Rumania, served on the eastern front as a German conscript, then joined the Legion to evade Russian capture. He fought in many places, including Indo China, then made his way across Cambodia/Laos to the sea at the fall of Dien Bien Phu, and spent a couple of years in a DP camp before being allowed to immigrate to Canada. A survivor, YES. A coward? I hardly think so......


Anyway, many French guns are very nice pieces indeed. Generally, I would be no more ashamed to use one of them than the products of any other country.

The French foreign Legion is manned by soldiers from every country in the world! I doubt more than five percent of the rank and file are French. The legeon is basiclly a Soldier of fortune group, and has little to do with France.

I have owned double rifles from every contry that makes them, except France, and that will not change!

I have owned firearms, of all types, made in ALMOST every country, but of all the fire arms I've ever owned, only "ONE" was made in France, and that was a Darne shotgun I bought used back in the early sixties, and that won't happen again either!

Too many of my family are buried in French soil, killed while pushing the Germans out of France, for me to tolerate their distaste for Americans!

Others may do as it suits them!

The French made us fly around their air space when we went after the Libyans.

Hours added to a dangerous mission. Risks multiplied immeasurably. Then they

quake in the presence of any possible half threat from the filthy terrorists.

They don't back us now against them, they deserve to be "wacked". They sure

welcomed us at Normandy though. I like the looks of the DEMAS rifle, though I know

precious little of it's particulars. [like is it in the pattern of 50% of it's weight

within the center 33.333% of it's length] For all I know PD disagrees with the position his

gov't has taken regarding terrorists, or maybe he staunchly supports the &+%#@$!!!

I have a hard time giving money to those who have been useless to us, and or detrimental

to us, since the end of the Viet Nam war. My rifle details are below my signature.

We as arm chair historians and foriegn policy makers, we seem to fall into the same press induced trap time and time again. We get our emotions stirred up by what some newspaper, TV news anchor or journalist reports. Many times these are laced with thier own views and emotions that they themselves incert into what they report.
I, personally feel that the majority of common French people still have a great amount of gratitude towards us, Paris may be a whole different ballgame.
Politicians are Politicians no matter where you are. They as a whole problably don't have enough brain cells between them to blow out a candle! But unfortunatly they are the ones who dictate international policies, and then react to said policies, which almost always seens to come back and bite them in the ass. We persceve the Frensh based on what thier politicians do instead of the people as a whole. And in the eyes of other nations we are also judged by our politicians, isn't that just great!
It's true that the French came to our aid during the Revolutioary War, and helped us win, but the scars of the French and Indian war was still a bitter taste in our mouths. We sat back and watched Hitler take the whole of Europe, and when we liberated them we were hailed as heroes! In 1954 when our allies, the French asked for help down in South East Asia, we again stood by and watched from the sidelines. Yes we did send U.S supplies, aircraft, and had the CIA recruit 24 pilots, two of witch were killed in action. this little action was Dien Bien Phu. In Febuary 1954 following the French occupation but before the battle, Democratic Senator Mansfield asked U.S. Defence Secretary Charles Wilson wheater the U.S. would send naval or airsupport if the French were in need, his answer was "For the moment there is no justification for raising U.S. aide above it's present level!" President Eisenhower also stated "Nobody is more opposed to intervention than I am!" What a great message to send to our allies. On march 31, 1954, 37 days before the fall on Dien Bien Phu, Joint Chief of Staff Radford was asked by a panel of U.S. Senators and Congressmen about the possibility of U.S involvement, Radford concluded it was too late for the USAF to save the French garrison. 37 days latter we sat by and watched as the garrison was overrun. All told the Viet Minh captured 11,721 prisoners, French survivors of the battle were starved, beaten and abused and many died. Of the survivors held as prisoners, only 3,290 were repatriated 4 months later. Could this be one of the reasons the French take a wait and see, or a "We don't want to get involved attitude!" Maybe! And as far as them being "Chicken Shits", I think not! I must say that the French Government did on Febuaray 25, 2005 award the French Legion of Honor to the 7 still living US Pilots. Do they recognize our efforts?
The above is only just the tip of the iceberg as they say, anyway, the worlds opinion of us is filled with much the same. All you have to do is look at the way we have handled our foriegn policies since WWII and you can pretty much figure out what the worlds opinion is of us.
We are a Great Nation of that there is no doubt. We just can't say the same for most of our Politicians. Just my $.02

VERY, VERY well said, Doc52 ....... and, yes, I own two French-made SXS rifles. I like them, & that's all that matters to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc 52:
Could this be one of the reasons the French take a wait and see, or a "We don't want to get involved attitude!" Maybe!

Of course it is, and we really can't blame 'em. We did it to them first, long before WWII. From 1914, our Chief Peckerwood proclaimed strict neutrality for 2 years and 8 months while Britain and France were bled white. Sure we sold them war materials, cash on the barrelhead. We profiteered shamelessly, and Wall Street really ARRIVED in WWI, while eventual allies virtually went bankrupt. The final insult was that Wilson then virtually dictated the terms of the peace. We did the same again in 1939, and don't think they don't remember that.

quote:

And as far as them being "Chicken Shits", I think not!

They do fight when they need to. During WWI (1914 - 1918), 1,384,000 French military personnel were killed in action or died of combat related wounds. They had more killed in four years than the US military has lost in action in all of it's wars combined since our country was founded. The US has never experienced anything even resembling the horror that the French have had to endure twice in the last 93 years.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Only French person I have ever known was a mess Sargent in the US Army when I was stationed at Ft Sill. He was a very nice guy a good sargent and one heck of a cook who used Army rations to make very good meals that I'm quite sure were not what were specified in the standard menu for the day. One of my favorite DR was a Chapuis and until I read it on the barrel I didn't know it was French thought it was Belgian. I dislike a lot of people but I don't know of a COUNTRY I dislike.

My latest is a collaberative effort from England/Laramie, Wyoming. Owned all others from England.

Should give the present president of France the benefit of the doubt and an A for effort. The perception of Americans as fat and over-indulgent is not just limited to the French. Most of the western europeans that I have met share this perception of Americans.

Dutch

Just sittin' in the gutter sluggin' rats, Ma.

Doc52
Thanks for Your "True Grit"

AK

Way to go pops. I can't break you balls on that one

Interesting read Doc52 You seem to know your history.

FN-Browning CCS 25 in 9,3x74R from Belgium :