quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
400,

I see somewhat you say, but I've shot alot of british guns that did'nt group that damn good.

V/C guns are more like 11-12K, thats 8K of what a british gun would cost. So yep, there is a difference but that is what price point is all about.

FAMARS, builds all the "new" Jeffery rifles that are produced that I know, even some of hollands guns--. I can tell you if mine did not group any better than your friends/client, I'd send it back.

Whats wrong with mono-block barrels? Shure it is less expensive, but what is the structural fault?Beretta and others have been using them for years, without fault.



Lot of Brit guns in that price range dont have ejectors. Whats your point?

intercepting sears--I'll agree my guns will have them.

I'm not the stuff hear for the sake. I just get tired of guys trying to make some ol doubles into things there not.

Face it some of these guns are getting flat out old, and not meant to be shot like some guys do. Most new guns have better steel end of story, and alot of the old guns have alot of peckadillos (regulation,cordite burns, bad wood, cracks in barrels,loose rib,ect, ect.)

I just have a different opinion. Thats the nice thing, makes the world go round!

Cheers,

Ed

It's obvious that you haven't read my posts so I'll not respond further.

quote:

FAMARS, builds all the "new" Jeffery rifles that are produced that I know,

No they don't. Paul builds the Jeffery rifles in house on actions sourced from Peter Hambrusch. He builds the Jeffery boxlocks on the original Leonard action, or the original Webley A & W C action, both of which he had mapped into Peter's CNC. Peter sells the actions to the trade, but requires that they be of a slightly different shape than those he provides to Jeffery.
-----------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 470Evans:
I forgot to mention the second best part about good condition vintage Brit double. If you don't pay silly money for one, you can shoot it for a few years and get your money back or even make some.

You can't do that with a new gun.

Where have you been in the last ten years? I paid $4610.oo for a 140E 9.3X74R double rifle ten years ago, and have had zero problem with it, and if you can find one of those rifles that is for sale today, it will set you back a minimum of $7K, and there is one on the net for sale at $9900 right now. Since the 141 came out and the 140E was no longer imported, the price has gone through the roof on the 140Es. I have a 140-2 Safari I paid $7K for it and 5 boxes of Federal factory ammo, five years ago, and you will be lucky to find a well used 140-2 470NE today for under $9K, and a new one will set you back on discount $10K retail, for just the rifle.

The thing most here seem to forget is when the Britt rifles were used, and ten years old they were simply a ten yr old used rifle, and did not sell for a price that was above the cost of a new one either. IMO,when the new rifles of today are fifty to 80 yrs old they will sell for premium prices as well just like the ones that are fifty to 80 yrs old today.

Just like cars from new to 15 yrs old,they are simply used cars, but let them get 30 yrs or older, and they become classics, and the price goes through the roof. This is the case with very old double rifles from UK,that were made between the wars, or before, are now not just used rifles but classics.

None of this post is to emply that Britt double rifles are not very well made, and ballanced rifle, and even ragged out ones are selling for twenty times what they cost new, but just back in the 1960s you could buy them for $2K in good shape. Now that they are almost 100 yrs old and in many cases older the classic status has now priced the good ones out of reach for many. That market is a mine field for the guy who doen't know what he is looking at.

Now there are some pimped up Britt rifles that are priced very high, and the unschooled flock to them like fies to a dead opossum, and get stung badly,because there are a lot of those lipstick on pigs out there, that only people like 400 Nitro Expressand people like him can seperate the real valuable rifles, and cull out the over used sluts wearing a nice dress.

The best thing about the newly made rifles is they are what they are, and were made to shoot, and hunt with, but they are priced for that purpose. Time will seperate the wheat from the chaff amoung those as it did with the old guns, and the ones that make the grade will apprecieate in value as well! Some have already done that in the last ten years.

It has come to the point that I wouldn't check a real classic double rifle, to Africa when I can check a $10K new double rifle that can be replaced if lost, stolen, or destroyed. The only practical reason I have double rifles is because they are the best platform for hunting dangerous game. The old classics only travel in my vehicle, and are a joy to own and shoot, and hunt with in North America, but out of the country, only the new ones ride in the belly of an airplane!

If you know what you are doing, and can afford a well kept classic, then by all means, buy one, because there is no rifle ever made that just feels like it is an extention of your body like an English made double rifle! However there is nothing so bad about most of the doubles that makes them a total loss to buy, and use! Just like the older rifles, the new ones require some care in choice as well.

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 505ED:
400,

I see somewhat you say, but I've shot alot of british guns that did'nt group that damn good.

V/C guns are more like 11-12K, thats 8K of what a british gun would cost. So yep, there is a difference but that is what price point is all about.

FAMARS, builds all the "new" Jeffery rifles that are produced that I know, even some of hollands guns--. I can tell you if mine did not group any better than your friends/client, I'd send it back.

Whats wrong with mono-block barrels? Shure it is less expensive, but what is the structural fault?Beretta and others have been using them for years, without fault.



Lot of Brit guns in that price range dont have ejectors. Whats your point?

intercepting sears--I'll agree my guns will have them.

I'm not the stuff hear for the sake. I just get tired of guys trying to make some ol doubles into things there not.

Face it some of these guns are getting flat out old, and not meant to be shot like some guys do. Most new guns have better steel end of story, and alot of the old guns have alot of peckadillos (regulation,cordite burns, bad wood, cracks in barrels,loose rib,ect, ect.)

I just have a different opinion. Thats the nice thing, makes the world go round!

Cheers,

Ed

It's obvious that you haven't read my posts so I'll not respond further.

Your right 400 I did'nt!

quote:

FAMARS, builds all the "new" Jeffery rifles that are produced that I know,

[QUOTE]No they don't. Paul builds the Jeffery rifles in house on actions sourced from Peter Hambrusch. He builds the Jeffery boxlocks on the original Leonard action, or the original Webley A & W C action, both of which he had mapped into Peter's CNC. Peter sells the actions to the trade, but requires that they be of a slightly different shape than those he provides to Jeffery. [QUOTE]

400,
I guess I was told wrong, lots of things change since the last time I was in europe.

400,

Get out and hunt a little with your guns, its good for them! Take, them across the pond, shove them in the belley of a charter plane and live a little.

Mac good post, I agree!

Out,

Ed

There's no better value, nor a more versatile rifle, than a Chapuis 9.3x74R. It's not a stopping rifle but you are not a PH. You can use it on anything in Africa and it's not too heavy to hunt Whitetails or pigs with here in NA. The only caveat is that you have to load your own solids. Invest the extra money in a set of shotgun barrels for it, if you like to hunt foreign birds.

If you want to prove to the world that you have hair on your chest, get a 470 by Chapuis. But this is 2x the money and too heavy for everyday hunting. Hard to understand the 2x price factor.

Too bad Chapuis doesn't make a 450-400 for around $7500.

If your budget allows, you can do well in the same calibers except by Heym. A little closer to a hand made gun there but quite a bit more money.

Krieghoff seems to be well made but no personal experience with them ... the action being a little eccentric and the engraving lacks something. I do like their detachable peep sight.

I don't know anything about Verney Carron. Would be interested to hear a report from anyone who has put them through a torture test. No third fastener ... but triple lump!

I know Merkels and don't care for them. Mainly a style thing. The ones I have shot have heavy triggers and they were not regulated (or regulated for some mystery brand of ammo). Some say they are fine up to 375 cal, but not strong enough for anything heavier. The Heym seems to have better balance/weight distribution.

If you must have vintage but don't have the money, you can get a "English" gun made in Belgium for about half the cost of the real thing. Same for the Ferlach makers, if you like Germanic styling/engraving.

The dollar has tanked and our communist in chief seems to be doing his best to tank it some more. So a good idea to buy now. As soon as the existing inventory has burned off, the prices of European factory guns will go up.

As far as English rifles are concerned, they are getting to the point where they are too expensive to put on a plane and drag through the Jesse. They are fun to buy and sell though.