Went to gun shop to order my 500 3inc, gun shop oner said that i am making a mistake.He said that a 470 would be a better option.What do you think?

What do you intend to hunt with it? Both are proven rounds however the 500 may make more sense if you want to hunt Jumbo on a regular basis and can handle the recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by nongwe:
Went to gun shop to order my 500 3inc, gun shop oner said that i am making a mistake.He said that a 470 would be a better option.What do you think?

Nongwe, I think what the dealer was trying to get across was the the outside profile of the barrels are the same so the 500NE is actually lighter than the 470NE because of the larger chamber full length, and a larger hole poked through the bore. The recoil of the 500 NE is higher than the 470NE in the same weight rifle, but is even more so with a rifle that is chambered for 500NE but actually ligher than a 470NE. The dealer was simply trying to help.

The 500NE Merkel will do the job, but you will have to get used to the recoil, and that can only be done with a lot of shooting before you get in front of a mad bull elephant!

I would think that it may be easier to find .470 NE ammunition in Africa, or here. Hornady has come out with their .470 NE in softs and solids, that's a plus. I have a Searcy in .470 so I could be a bit biased. I would love it even more if it were a .500 3" NE, but then...

I say buy the one that makes your heart sing every time you think about shooting it.

Rich

It is a romance thing in my oppinion, like tring to decide if you want a 404 Jeffery or a 416 Rigby, both have history, but which one pulls your heart strings.

That being said, I believe from my own experience that the buffalo I have shot with a 500 seemed to have more of a visual reaction to the impact vs the buffalo I have shot with the 470. That has been a total of 5 buffalo so not really a wealth of experienc, but experience none the less. I could also be my perception because the 500 is the romance NE round for me so of course it is better!..................

For what it is worth I have also taken an bull ellie with the 500 and it died completely............the 470?..........never shot an ellie with it so im going with the 500 is better yet again!! HaHaHa!

All kidding aside I agree with the statement above that 470 ammo is probably more available in africa if you were to need ammo, and there is a difference in recoil that may or may not matter to you, If you have shot a Merkel 470 and the recoil suprised you in a bad way......a 500 Merkel will most likely be over the limit in that department, in that weight rifle it is quite sharp compared to the 470. The main thing is you are ordering yourself a double!!......whichever one you decide on CONGRATS to you!!!!

Question for you folks who own both the 470 and 500.
Taking into consideration these rifles are built to order and the stock fits you well, is there a noticeable difference in the "recovery time" between the 470 and 500?

Nongwe I know you for 15 years now and think you must rather try a 30.06 double you cant even handle my .458 recoil

Just kidding my friend.
Witch ever you chose it will do the job for you fine.You are still the best shot I know,with every kind of rifle

Nongwe:

I own a .470. I don't own a .500 but I have shot several double rifles in that caliber. I will tell you that for me anyway, I thought a .500 was a big step up in the recoil over the .470, especially in a Krieghoff or a Merkel. I think those guns are very light for caliber in the .500. Some guys can do it but I can't see going to the range to shoot a .500 for "fun." They just seem to beat the daylighs out of me.

My thought is that if you are going to do a lot of elephant shooting, then maybe the .500 would be the wise choice. However, if you are going to hunt buffalo and everything else in Africa with your gun with maybe a one time elephant hunt, then the .470 is the better choice. Remember, the .470 has been killing everything in Africa, including tuskers for a long time. I much prefer the .470.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Question for you folks who own both the 470 and 500.
Taking into consideration these rifles are built to order and the stock fits you well, is there a noticeable difference in the "recovery time" between the 470 and 500?

No difference in the two.

Nongwe,
I've owned both and the 500 N.E. is my choice. Recoil is a little stiffer but I don't shoot full loads too often in the 470 or the 500 so I can get plenty of practice without developing the flinch from hell. If you reload get the 500. If you do not reload you will find 470 ammo easier to find BUT the 500 over the past three years is becoming a very popular caliber and eventually I believe ammo for it will be just as easy to find. Whatever you choose it will be a great DG round and both will get the job done well.

I have hunted quite a few elephant and god willing I will hunt some more. I have used the 470 and 465 along with a 458 Win and a 458 Lott. They all died just fine. I don't think the extra weight or recoil (a 500 trade off) is worth the difference in the field.

465H&H

Dirk got it right.

I say make arrangements to shoot both with full power loads BEFORE you make your decision.

I'm not sure what brand of rifle you're dealing with, but a proper DR should be weighted according to caliber. I know that some are not, and as Mac37 said, the 500 version can even be lighter based on the larger bore in the same-sized blank. As others have said, it depends on your intended use, but most authors and users remark that the 500 has a noticeably greater impact on large game. Most any DR can be adjusted for weight by a gunmaker, but adding weight to a 500NE to make it more comfortable to shoot also adds to carry weight. Then again, trackers are generally more than willing to carry a rifle for the client. Whichever you decide on, you'll soon have a double rifle!!!

PS: 500 NE !!!

.470 NE

The .500 hits harder on both ends in equally weighted and balanced rifles...ammo is more readily available for the .470. Thus, that would be my choice.

There's plenty enough gun in the .470 for EVERYTHING africa has to offer.

JW

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

Most any DR can be adjusted for weight by a gunmaker

Jon:

I am not sure I agree with this statement. Most guys will add weight to a double by putting weight in the stock. That knocks off the balance. With the Continental doubles like Merkel and Krieghoff, I think it is important to buy a caliber that is properly weighted in the first instance and not try to add weight AFTER you buy the gun. That's why I thought the perfectly weighted K-gun is the .500/.416. At about 10.5 pounds it is just about right. The .470 would not be too bad at that weight but I don't care what John Taylor says, a 10.5 pound .500 is TOO DAMN LIGHT!. If I was buying a .500, I think the hot rock right now is a Verney-Carron. That, or a gun from Searcy, where you can specify the weight of the gun you want is the closest thing us mortals have to a reasonably priced "bespoke" gun that we have right now.

Dave, One trick I've used involves taking off the pistol grip cap, boring a hole into the grip, but not far enough to interrupt the grain flowing through the wrist, then adding weight, epoxy, and putting the grip cap back on. That keeps the extra weight between the hands, and low in the rifle's profile.

I totally agree that balancing the weight to the caliber, or to the shooter's specific preference, is the right way to go about it. Ordering a new DR from Butch or Verney-Carron would accomplish that, but involves the cost of a new rifle, and a year or better wait. That doesn't work for me.

In my case, that's like taking a big hunk of a little kid's favorite candy, putting it on the table in front of him, and telling him he has to wait a year before he can eat it!!!!

In a Merkel, go with a .375 H&H (10.1 pounds). In a K-gun, go with a .500/.416 or a .470 (10.5 pounds). If you want a .500, go with an Blaser S2 (11+ pounds).

quote:

If you want a .500, go with an Blaser S2 (11+ pounds).

And a 45 lb safety!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

If you want a .500, go with an Blaser S2 (11+ pounds).

And a 45 lb safety!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nonsense! It just takes a little "flick" of the thumb. Blasers rock!

I love Blasers...have 5 or 6 now, and have had 3 or 4 S2 DRs as well. I just can't resist any opportunity to bust you 00's when the opportunity presents itself!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
What do you intend to hunt with it? Both are proven rounds however the 500 may make more sense if you want to hunt Jumbo on a regular basis and can handle the recoil.

Exactly right. I've used both. .500 needs to be heavier to keep the recoil close. I would not like it in a 10-10.5# rifle. I like 10.25 to 10.50 in 500/450 or .470, but 11.75 in 500

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
If you want a .500, go with an Blaser S2 (11+ pounds).

Why not just get a real double?

Jeff Wemmer: AMEN.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
If you want a .500, go with an Blaser S2 (11+ pounds).

Why not just get a real double?

Good Point! +2

Nongwe,the bigger the better!!!In those situations a 700 nitro feels like a p-shooter!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
If you want a .500, go with an Blaser S2 (11+ pounds).

Why not just get a real double?

Now Mike, that was cold man