As I creep forward into reloading I hit a STOP!

With my first attempt to full length resize one

of my new unfired Hornady cases for my 450/400

3.25" rifle I first used new LEE lube applied

per the instructions to the case. Using GREAT

effort I got the case to a point into the die

but it was about .25" shy of going fully into

the die. I asked a VERY experienced reloader

friend to give it a try. He wound up getting a

case stuck in the die using the LEE lube, and

it was pushed a microscopic measurement deeper

into the die. He got the case out and then

cleaned the case and lubed it with 17, yes, 17

year old RCBS Lube 2. The case went into the die

with almost NO effort, We were shocked! We had

actually previously concluded that the die was

incorrectly made with too small dimensions,

thereby preventing the brass from being pushed
fully into the die. NO MORE LEE LUBE FOR ME!!!

FOUR words! ---------> Imperial Sizing Die Wax

DM

quote:

Originally posted by DM:
FOUR words! ---------> Imperial Sizing Die Wax

DM

Exactly...

It is marketed by Redding now.

I've never used the Imperial Sizing Die Wax.
Sounds like I'll have to give some a try.
It's strange though that the Lee Lube didn't work.
Was this just a full length sizing operation?
I've used Lee Lube for many years and it has always worked fine.
Have used it with case full length resizing, NE case forming, even with bullet drawing (reducing).
I hope they haven't changed the formula.

1- 5seventy, It was just an attempt to F/L size a case so I could send it to L E

Wilson to have a custom shell holder made for the Wilson Trimmer that I bought.

2- I will obtain the Imperial wax. The RCBS #31 shell holder performed well enough,

but my coach Ken said he did not like the looseness so I am ordering a HORNADY

450 NE 3.25" S.H. at about $8.00. RCBS charges about 4 times that for their "offic-

ially correct" Special Order shell holder for my caliber which shares the same

rim and base with the 450 NE 3.25".

There are two kinds of case lube:
1. Imperial
and
2. everything else

Rich

I'm surprised that the Lee lube failed on just a full length sizing job.
Over the years I've put it to work on much harder tasks and it has always worked well.
I used to form .360 No2 cases from Bell .450 basic thick rim brass. Never owned a forming die, so did it in one pass in a full length die. This is a fairly drastic forming job with a lot of reduction of the basic case being performed. Far more than many other NE forming jobs.
The Lee stuff always performed fine for this, for me anyway.
I think I started using it in the mid 1980's and still use the stuff today.
The only drama I have ever had with it is that the tube it comes in will eventually start to break down, and then splits and falls to pieces.
Jack, I'd definately send the tube you have back to Lee and see what they have to say.
You guys sound like you're very happy with the Imperial stuff. That's good to know, and I'm going to try and track some down for myself.

Use Hornaday Unique and throw the rest away, It puts them all to shame.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

quote:

Originally posted by DM:
FOUR words! ---------> Imperial Sizing Die Wax

DM

Exactly...

It is marketed by Redding now.

+2, there is no better lube

Hello,

Used RCBS lube for 15 + years no problems.

Thanks

Men, Thank you one and ALL!

I've used all of them. Imperial is great as is RCBS. I have currently been using Dillon pump spray lube. Works great as well. I think it contains anhydrous lanolin and a drying agent, possibly alcohol. USED CORRECTLY most lubes work as required. Some experimentation may be required for sufficiency of lube/coverage. Too much application and you may experience dented cases. Too little and you will experience that which BigFiveJack did.

After thirty years of reloading I, too, had a 450-400 3 1/4 stick in my sizing die. My fault, I'm afraid. Can happen to anyone.

Dutch

Use to use Lee for many caliber, but started using Hornady's Unique when loading for my 50bmg. Used lots of ISDW and Hornadys answer to ISDW, the red colored stuff, works very well, but the Unique cleans off faster.
I will use the ISDW when heavy sizing (reforming cases)is needed.

Gentlemen, I have never used LEE case lube, and have used RCBS case lube for over 50 yrs, without a hitch. I've used it for case forming, and bullet swageing, with no porblem. However I ran out of RCBS case lube, and the gunstore didn't have any either but had HORNADY item #050009 case sizing lube, and promtly stuck a 500/450#1 Express case in the RCBS die so tightley it had to be drilled , and taped to pull it out.

I have also never used the Imperial Sizing Die Wax, but I may give it a try. I have to make cases for the 450#1 EXP from 475#2 NE cases which are very tough brass, and requires a lot of pressure, even in my RCBS Big-MAX, so I may try the Imperial for the forming of cases for this rifle.
When the Hornady lube stuck a case for this rifle that had already been formed, and fired in the rifle, and was being simply full length re-sized. I have a full bottle of the Hornady that I will give to anyone who wants it, because I will not use it again.

With Imperial, just a little does the trick. With the others I have used, you really need to coat the brass pretty well. And then it gums up the die pretty quickly.

I swaged a bunch of 50 cal pulled bullets with the Inmperial with very light coats - no problem. I tried the same thing with both Lee and Hornady, and found I needed to get it pretty well coated to make it work. And then I had to keep cleaning the die out seemed like every 50 rounds.

I am sticking with Imperial.

Jack,
Out of interest, what was your method of applying the Lee lube to the cases.
Was the lube watery or was it like a paste when it comes out of the tube?

I think "part" of the origional problem was, the dies were bone dry, and i ALWAYS add a little extra lube on the FIRST case in NEW or cleaned dies. After that first case, the die has a small film of lube in it, and doesn't need much on the case from then on.

I "use to" mfg. ammo, and those days i was HEAVY into wildcatting and forming cases of all kinds. I never found anything that worked better than Imperial, and those that came close, were much harder to get off the case when i was done.

I started using Imperial sometimes in the 70's ?...

DM

I think you are right. On that first time use, most of the lube is being "wiped" off and is left behind as the case enters the FL die. This would have that first case entering into a dry unlubed die.
Lee lube might not be "the best" available, but from experience I know that it normally works fine even for heavy duty tasks like forming etc.
That's good advice to lube the die internally, as well as the case for the first case to be sized in a new or just cleaned FL die.

A friend of mine did something similar sizing 50BMG cases. I helped him realize he was using Lee Alox lube, not sizing lube and it went a lot better after he switched. I have used and still sometimes use Lee case lube with no problems but far prefer Imperial sizing wax.

Matthew

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:
Jack,
Out of interest, what was your method of applying the Lee lube to the cases.
Was the lube watery or was it like a paste when it comes out of the tube?

It was like a paste, and I applied it with my fingers as did my coach a bit later.

Imperial wax and dry neck lube have been ordered from www.buffaloarms.com !

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:
Jack,
Out of interest, what was your method of applying the Lee lube to the cases.
Was the lube watery or was it like a paste when it comes out of the tube?

It was like a paste, and I applied it with my fingers as did my coach a bit later.

Imperial wax and dry neck lube have been ordered from www.buffaloarms.com !

Stop attempting to cut costs, buy the best from the start...outside of the Lee crimp die, their stuff is just not worth the price...buy RCBS, Hornady, Redding, Forster and you should be ok....

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

Stop attempting to cut costs, buy the best from the start...outside of the Lee
crimp die, their stuff is just not worth the price...buy RCBS, Hornady, Redding,
Forster and you should be ok....

Not attempting to cut costs, it's just that about 22 miles from my home there's

a small biz that sells reloading supplies and I try to help local small operators

stay alive. This was the only lube he had, and he said it was good. Maybe for 9mm

luger or what ever it is. But no darn good for my 3.25 inch cases! So if you guys

were doing a run of say 500 S&W on a progressive, would you still use the Imperial

or would you use another company's sizing lube?

I use Midway's old aerosol version of this LUBE for both my Dillon Square Deal B and RL550 progressives on pistol cases. But all my dies are Dillon carbide so some other product might work better for your run-of-the-mill dies.

I still use Imperial on my bottleneck rifle cases, progressive press or Forster's Co-AX.

BTW, did you buy the Imperial neck lube in the ceramic balls applicator? Neck lube applicator
I found it was less wasteful of the dry lube.

I use the Hornady spray lube with a little extra on the first 2 or 3 cases for a new set on dies. (Knock on wood here)...I have never had an issue with over 5000 rounds of various big bore ammo loaded.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I switched to hornady spray lube a few years ago,after using rcbs case lube with a pad for 20 years.I havent had a stuck case yet with it.
I suspect you didnt have enough lube on the case,or failed to lube the die before starting.

I use carbide dies for pistol cases, anything that doesn't go into a carbide die, gets Imperial...

For neck lube, i learned to touch the top neck of the cases in such a way, that a "very fine" film of lube will do the job. I never buy anything spl. for necks...

First i "film" the sides of the case, (with my fingers) and then a tiny swipe over the top of the case for the neck...

I just learned to use the Imperial for everything as said above...

BTW, i never fl. size NEW cases "IF" the gun will close on them... I "DO" run the expander ball through the necks to "true them up", but that's it...

DM

Imperial Sizing Die Wax for forming or when you are doing major resizing. I have been using the Dillon rapid lube for most sizing operations I even use a light application on pistol cases I am running through carbide dies. They just feel smother.
There are only 2 kinds of people those who have stuck a case and those who will. Be ready with a stuck case removal kit.
Bill

Gents: I've used nothing but Lee lube since the late 1970s (I think) with never a problem if the dies and the brass were within specs. I currently shoot .450-400 up to .600 and up to 4-bore (all doubles) and still use Lee.
Cheers,
Cal

I guess I am the odd man out. For the most part I have used vasoline since 1955. I have tried other lubes, but not Imperial and always went back to vasoline. I have only had 2 stuck cases and I don't remember what lube was being used at the time. One was caused by the wrong shell holder "pulling" the rim. That includes a lot of 3" 3.25" and 3.5 inch Nitro express cases. Maybe I'll try some Imperial

The 450-400 3 1/4" NE is a prime candidate for rim pulling if the case gets mildly tight or worse, in the sizing die. Forming these from basic brass brings an even higher chance of this happening.
Brass which has thicker rims are far less likely to cause rim pulling dramas.
So long as a quality lube is used though, it shouldn't happen too often, even with thin rimmed cases.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents: I've used nothing but Lee lube since the late 1970s (I think) with
never a problem if the dies and the brass were within specs. I currently
shoot .450-400 up to .600 and up to 4-bore (all doubles) and still use Lee.
Cheers,
Cal

Either my coach and I used too little LEE lube or I had a bad batch. I mean

really, if a man with Cal Pappas' experience uses NOTHING but LEE lube

without trouble, how can I make a "case", pun INTENDED against LEE?

When I go to Wasilla Ak. to visit my cousin there, (sometime this century)

I'm going to try to meet Cal too. Maybe he'll demo his "lubing with LEE" !!!
(sounds bad! ) Or maybe he will shoot a video of it and we'll all see how

he makes things happen!

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:
I guess I am the odd man out. For the most part I have used vasoline since 1955.
...That includes a lot of 3" 3.25" and 3.5 inch Nitro express cases. Maybe I'll try
some Imperial

WHY MESS WITH SUCCESS A-H?!?!?! Perfect satisfaction with VASOLINE for 55 YEARS,
I'm throwin' in the towel !!!