Hello everybody !!! Im thinking to sell some of my 30 guns and save some money to buy my first double rifle, sorry, Im not a rich man, and I cant dream with a H&H, J.Rigby or other classic doubles, but I dont want to finish with a Kodiak blackpowder false doble rifle, so this is the question:
From 416 rigby to 500 NE Cal what is the most finantially accesible USED double? (Quality and Price balanced) How much aprox. ? and where I can buy it ? Thanks a lot , and congratulations to all double rifle owners. Regards Guillermo.

Well, as a general rule, the higher up you go in caliber the more expensive the double.

Also, while there are a number of used doubles available at any give time, if you are new to double rifles make sure you have a double rifle gunsmith check it out before you buy.

For doubles under $20,000, there is a decent selection of relatively new rifles. While you may find an older English rifle in that price range, chances are it has led a pretty rough life.

Merkel, Krieghoff and Heym fit that category. All of these are of relatively recent vintage. Merkel makes a solid double rifle, but without ejectors (they will in 2008). You can find a decent merkel for anywhere from $7500 to $9000. Krieghoff likewise makes a good double, but it has a cocking mechanism that must be worked to cock the hammers (it does not cock automatically upon opening and closing). The Krieghoffs sell for $10,000 and up, although a bargain can be had with some patience. Heym makes a very nice double that has many features others list as options as standard equipment - ejectors, intercepting sears, etc. The new Heym PH model runs at roughly $16,000 (maybe less in Argentina based on the currency exchange rate), and used ones not much less than that.

Searcy also makes some nice rifles, but there is a big difference in quality between those of older and newer manufacture.

You may want to consider sticking with a flanged cartridge, at least for your first double. The most calibers available will be the 450/400, the 450#2, the 470 NE and the 500 NE. Hornaday is coming out with commercial ammunition for the 450/400 and Federal (and soon Norma) make the 470 ammunition (as well as Wolfgang Romey). If you don't reload, you are going to be limited in your options for choice of caliber.

This is just a quick, general overview. I am certain other folks will weigh in.

Best of luck!

Merkel 470NE would be my pick.

If you have the option of buying your double in the USA, it is my understanding that Champlin Firearms is the premier used double rifle dealer. Here is a link:

http://www.champlinarms.com/

It seems that the 470 caliber commands higher prices, probably because there is easily obtained, if not cheap, ammunition available. Since calibers like the 450 N° 2 are not loaded by major ammunition manufacturers used rifles can probably be found for a somewhat lower price.

If you are going to buy a new double and buying in France is an option (with an 18.75% reduction in price over the list price because you can be exempted from VAT if exported) then Chapuis is a good choice for either a .375 H&H Flanged or a .470.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Well, as a general rule, the higher up you go in caliber the more expensive the double.

Also, while there are a number of used doubles available at any give time, if you are new to double rifles make sure you have a double rifle gunsmith check it out before you buy.

For doubles under $20,000, there is a decent selection of relatively new rifles. While you may find an older English rifle in that price range, chances are it has led a pretty rough life.

Merkel, Krieghoff and Heym fit that category. All of these are of relatively recent vintage. Merkel makes a solid double rifle, but without ejectors (they will in 2008). You can find a decent merkel for anywhere from $7500 to $9000. Krieghoff likewise makes a good double, but it has a cocking mechanism that must be worked to cock the hammers (it does not cock automatically upon opening and closing). The Krieghoffs sell for $10,000 and up, although a bargain can be had with some patience. Heym makes a very nice double that has many features others list as options as standard equipment - ejectors, intercepting sears, etc. The new Heym PH model runs at roughly $16,000 (maybe less in Argentina based on the currency exchange rate), and used ones not much less than that.

Searcy also makes some nice rifles, but there is a big difference in quality between those of older and newer manufacture.

You may want to consider sticking with a flanged cartridge, at least for your first double. The most calibers available will be the 450/400, the 450#2, the 470 NE and the 500 NE. Hornaday is coming out with commercial ammunition for the 450/400 and Federal (and soon Norma) make the 470 ammunition (as well as Wolfgang Romey). If you don't reload, you are going to be limited in your options for choice of caliber.

This is just a quick, general overview. I am certain other folks will weigh in.

Best of luck!

Guillermo,I agree with most everything Jim had to say above, except the comment highlighted in red. That statement is not fully true, for the Krieghoff. The KRIEGHOFF will re-cock it's self after fireing, and breaking to re-load! The BLASER is the one that must be recocked manually every time it is broken open.

If you fire the Krieghoff rifle, one or both barrels, and do not touch the cocking switch, the rifle re-cocks one or both barrels, depending if one or both are fired. The so-called safety is not automatic on the Kreighoff. Now if you have fired both barrels, re-load, and do not need to fire again, to uncock the rifle, you simply push the cocking switch slightly forward, and release, and it is uncocked, but still loaded. To cock the rifle again you push the switch forward till it cocks the hammers. NOW if the switch is to the rear, if you break the action open, it doesn't cock, but that will not happen in a fast re-load while under fire with a Buffalo. This system allows one to carry the rifle loaded but un-cocked, but as long as the switch is forward, it re-cocks it's self on breaking.

I think Jim confused the Krieghoff with the Blaser double rifle. That one,the safety is automatic,and has to be manually cocked every time. I was under the same misconception as Jim, and was leary of the Krieghoff, till I handled Perry's Krieghoff, and found it did indeed re-cock it's self while fighting!

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
If you have the option of buying your double in the USA, it is my understanding that Champlin Firearms is the premier used double rifle dealer. Here is a link:

http://www.champlinarms.com/

Chapuis is a good choice for either a .375 H&H Flanged or a .470.

The 375 Flanged is the only chambering that makes me want to buy a Chapuis rifle! I had an Army & Navy double, some years ago, that was chambered for 375 H&H flanged,with an old scope in claw mounts, and I loved that rifle, but at that time brass for the 375 FL was non-existant, so I sold the rifle. Do I regret that sale? Hell yes I do, my knees are perminantly damaged from kicking my own butt for selling it!

Mac

Thanks for clarifying the point on the Krieghoff. I was trying to provide a quick and dirty summary, and was just a little too quick, or too dirty.

The one thing I could not recall was whether the Krieghoff came with ejectors or was an extractor only rifle.

THANKS !!! MacD37,Jim,ozhunter,Wink
Now I know a lot of more from your comments about the doubles; was very useful for me all the info regarding the ejectors vs extractors, flanged or rimed ammo vs unrimed, ammo availability, cocking system, etc...and now I have the last two questions: Which is better? double or single trigger system? I saw a PH Sullivan client trying to shoot the second shot (after his first) with the same trigger!!!,(Maybe he didnt know that the Sullivan´s double that he was using had two triggers) and the wounded buffallo ran during his second shot try. Mr. Sullivan today is still laughing.And the last question is; What accuracy level I have to expect from a used double (Regular accuracy in this type of rifles)? THANKS AGAIN !!! EVERYBODY, Regards; GUILLERMO.

Krieghoff makes good strong guns but they're trying to reinvent the wheel. I wouldn't touch one. Not attractive for my taste either. Why long for a 375 flanged when you can have a 450/400?

JIM MANION

Please find me a big bore merkel for $7,500

PLEASE !

TOM 814 774 5739


FOR GUILLERMO = YOU WOULD NEVER GO WRONG WITH A 470 MERKEL. NEVER.

Tom

If you'd get off your high horse once in a while and take time to read rather than flapping your condescending jaw, you just might be surprised at what you find.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=254104907#254104907

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Tom

If you'd get off your high horse once in a while and take time to read rather than flapping your condescending jaw, you just might be surprised at what you find.
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=254104907#254104907

Well said.


As soon as I saw that post, I thought the same.

Tom, instead of getting everyone else to do your looking, why hot call around and let people know you are after one.

If I can buy bargain DR's in the US from Australia, I'm sure as hell that you can find a Merkel.

And why $7500 and not $8500 ?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tomo577:
JIM MANION

Please find me a big bore merkel for $7,500

PLEASE !

Maybe I was too kind because I just sold my one for that.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tomo577:
JIM MANION

Please find me a big bore merkel for $7,500

PLEASE !

Maybe I was too kind because I just sold my one for that.

Ozhunter

I've just worked out who you are.
Was talking to the previous owner of that
gun last week.

Must get mine out and have a play.

If you've no need for a large bore, there are often medium bore (8 and 9 mm of various persuasions) German, Austrian or Belgian DRs available in the $5-6500 range if you look around some. They make excellent deer and elk rifles (in the correct cartridge) and are lighter and far handier than their larger cousins. On the other hand, if the desire is for a dangerous game rifle, these are not the solution to your desire.

As far as the answer to the question of triggers. Double triggers are the only way to go in my opinion!! If you practice with the rifle there will be no surprises. Accuracy depends on the rifle. If it is modern you can expect it to shoot very well. Have seen quite a few shoot 2" or less at 50 yards. Some are capable of even better. If you have the chance, handle as many rifles as you can. I would recomend a Searcy. Buena suerte!

Thanks!!!! H2oboy , I suppost, that you mentioned the doble trigger better sistem than single for reliabillity reasons (each barrel with its own trigger/hammer, independent one of the other and none automatic hammer selector) If I can afford it, may be at the end I will buy a second hand Merkel in field grade in 470 NE in Spain.Regards: Guillermo

I also would and have opted for a Searcy double. Mine is a .450-400 and I had a .470 in same, but traded it in on the 450-400..I have owned a lot of doubles but for a hunting rifle I will always choose a Searcy..

If your a collector then by all means get a good english double, they can be had for $10,000 up if you shop...

Tom,
I have seen Merkels from $6500 to $9000 in the Gunlist from time to time..They are a nice enough rifle but their resale is not all that great.

guys, thanks for the comments about d r prices. i missed that one for $7,500 - it sold quickly i guess.

ray, there isn't much of anything in double rifles in the gunlist anymore.

seems everything has gone to web based listings.

the gunlist years ago had a half page or more of double rifles . now they list about 4 or 5.