Gents, I have a W.J. Jeffery in .450 No. 2 made in 1906.

I bought some brass from Bill Stewart stamped HH and I have fired Kynoch ammunition through it. The HH brass and Kynoch chamber fine

I bought some Jamison brass from Grafs and some loaded ammo from Safari Arms which is Jamison brass.

The Jamison will not chamber in the rifle and I see the rim is thicker than the Kynoch and HH brass. My cheapo micrometer is not good enough to get the measurements.

Anyone else run into this issue?

Another question is what is the HH brass ( what does the HH stand for?) and does anyone know where I can get more? And/or does Kynoch sell brass?

Also what brass do you other guys use who have .450 No. 2 rifles? Not that there are many out there.

Thanks!

I know tha early on the 450-400's were made for thick rims and thin rims, but the 450 no. 2 only has one rim thickness as far as I know, but I wouldn't swear to it. Either your gun is the problem and thats correctable, or Jamison is mistaken and uninformed..I would first of all discuss it with Jamison, and go from there. I seem to recall Butch Searcy having some fitting troubles with some brass from them, but got it worked out as I recall.

I have been shooting a 450 No2 double rifle for around 20 years. When I started Bertram was the ONLY 450 No2 Brass.
And yes I know many people have talked trash on Bertram brass.

However I have my initial lot of Bertram brass, that has been fired at least 20 times or more...

I never kept a count on it as I did not think it would last over 4 or 5 firings.
I continue to shoot it. I have NEVER had a failure of a Bertram case...

After these cases had lasted so long I took 20 new cases and kept track of how many times they were fired with full power loads. After 7 times firing, they still looked and acted as new...

I have heard form others that some Jamison brass has had rim and base deminsional problems in several calibers, including 577...

PSmith

Let me add that I think, that the 450 No2, just might be the best double rifle calibre on the Planet...

I completely agree sir!

The .450 No. 2 chambering was what really made the rifle irresistable.

I had a lot of fun shooting my Kynoch through it a couple of weeks ago. Now I need ammunition for my hunt next year in Zimbabwe. Hope to get a buffalo with it.

I have had considerable trouble with the rim thickness on Jamison brass for my 45 2 7/8 Shiloh Sharps, aka a 45-110. Nearly all of the rims were too thick, and the thickness was inconsistent. I have spent a great deal of time getting these cases to fit. Once this wss done,the brass has worked fine.

HH stands for Huelsen-Horneber.

http://www.huelsen-horneber.de/index_en.html

It's great brass and they make it in 450 no2 but you'll need to special order it.

I shoot both Bertram and Jamison brass in my .450 #2 with nary a problem. I've always felt that the Jamison brass was the better quality. I have now loaded all of my Bertram brass with the Hornady 350 grain RNSP for longer range shooting of plains game. All of my Jamison brass is loaded with 500 grain RNSP and solids for dangerous game.

I use Bertram, and these cases have taken a great deal of use.

If your only problem is thick rims, take them to a local machine shop and have the rims thinned. Simple solution and it will keep the brass in use.

Gents, as a follow up, here's a photo of the Jamison brass (unfired) on left, then the HH (unfired), then a fired Kynoch case. John LaSala at Safari Arms tells me Jamison has a rim thickness of 0.072" and Bertram of 0.075". Clearly HH is thinner at least to my untrained eye, the Kynoch is about the same.

I added a couple of photos, obviously this is not a rim thickness issue.

Jamison won't chamber whether loaded ammo or unfired brass; HH unfired brass chambers; Kynoch loaded or once-fired chambers.

Guess I need to find some Kynoch ammunition and/or brass.

The original design specs for the .450 #2 NE call for a rim thickness of .080". That's also what Art Alphin shows in "Any Shot You Want".

Stupid question.
Did you full length size before loading ?

Nitro

Paul:
Did you get my email?
Cal

Paul looks like the same problem i have with my 500/450 3 1/4" Nitro. Older Bertram brass won't chamber but later will. There is a neck thickness difference of about 4 thou. My photos are about the same as yours.

I have reamed older Bertram brass but new stuff is thinner, maybe following production runs for Kynamco? Kynoch cases have thinner necks and the H&H appears tightly chambered.

Is well described by Graeme Wright in his book.

Maybe that is the cause? Do you have access to a neck thickness micrometer?

Cheers, Chris

Paul,

Have you put the brass in the chamber upside down? This will tell you if it's a rim issue. Your picture looks like the case won't even get past the base of the case.

Is the round that won't chamber a loaded round? If so it could be a neck thickness issue, Horneber brass has a thinner neck. If that's the case you'll need to ream the case necks.

Or a shoulder issue.
Cal

Thank you very much gents. I really appreciate the help.

Yep, the photo is of a loaded cartridge in Jamison brass; unfired Jamison also won't chamber.

Kynoch chambers loaded or once-fired. I only had HH unfired brass and it chambers.

I have put the brass in rim first and that seems to work for all. According to my cheap micrometer the Kynoch and Jamison pretty much have the same rim thickness.

It has to be the shoulder and/or neck issue.

I have passed along all your information to John LaSala at Safari Arms and I'm sure he will get it figured out.

Thanks again guys.

Thanks Paul.

Good shooting and happy hunting.

Best wishes, Chris

Paul,

Yes it is either a neck/shoulder or case body problem. I know Jameson had a case base diameter problem with some 577 Brass.

Also can you show us a few pictures of your 450 No2 double rifle.

Especially the barrel flats, action, barrel rib and front and rear sights.

From what I can see in those pictures it looks exactly like my Edwinson Green and Sons, which was built on a Jeffery action with Jeffery barrels

Here is what I mean by shoulder placement and shape. Left is a factory brass case in .450 no2. Left is a fired case in my 1904 Lang .450 no2. Note both the shape and place of the shoulder.
Cal

For what it's worth, I had Superior Ammo load me a box of .577 NE for my British Columbia black bear hunt and had no issues. The key point is that is was loaded using Jameson brass. Perhaps they have worked out their issues?

It looks like your problem is not the rim. In any case the rim thickness and chamber rim depth is easily measurable to see. You may have the same problem I had with some Jamison 577 brass. The kynoch cases taper starts immediately above the rim. The Jamison Brass had a very short section above the rim that was parallel. The case would stick there (The Heym chamber is also about a thousandth too small). Here is how you can tell: magic marker that part of the case and tap it into the chamber and out, you can see if that is where it is rubbing. I was able to make mine work with a little fiddling with my reloading process. I use the press ram to push the case all the way into the die until the rim is against the bottom of the die WITHOUT the shell holder. I then tap the case out from the top. This sized the case enough to work. Pain in the ass, but I am not doing hundreds of them.

Brad

quote:

WITHOUT the shell holder.

I love it...necessity truly is the mother of invention!!!!