quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Hey Larry,dont listen to these jerks you will get the ROYAL SHAFT!

I think this is a more apropos image:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Hey Larry,dont listen to these jerks you will get the ROYAL SHAFT!

I think this is a more apropos image:

Bwahahahahaha! (Sound of deep inhaling). Bwahahahahaha!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Mac - Thanks for the info and I will try you and dpcd methods first for sure. Never actually thought of or knew about the different ways a DR would react.

Have a great Holiday Season.

Larry Sellers

Larry,
This subject has been talked about several times. I ask it when I got my first DR.

Since my first...I have shot several DR's off of Lead-Sled's with a lot of lead (100 #'s), Lead-Slead with a little lead (25 #'s), and my favorite...MTM with 50 lbs of lead.

I have heard all kids of stories about lead sled's with BA rifles as well. Stories about shooting to different POI and such.

I have never found it to be true. My DR which is a Merkel .500 NE shoots exactly the same whether I shoot it out of my MTM or off sticks. I do hand hold the fore-end in the MTM just as I do standing. It also shot fine out of a Lead-Sled.

As I said...I DON'T practice out of mine...but I do use it for load work-up.

I switched to the MTM as I just can't see how the plastic rest with 50 lbs of lead shot weight could be any harder on a double than a large man's shoulder. I could buy into a Lead-Sled with a lot of weight breaking a wrist over time and I got the MTM to do load work-up on some old vintage doubles for friends.

Lead-sled with out weight would probably be fine too. As mentioned Greame Wright uses one and as mentioned...I have seen pictures of high-end makers using them for regulation work.

Please try it and report back you findings...I bet you will be pleasantly surprized...and there is now substitute for actually seeing with your own eyes.

ledvm,

Thanks for posting your experiences and results. Another potential myth debunked.

Be interesting to hear from the rifle builders or their reps if they use any sort of lead sled during final regulation and will admit to it, or not.

I was cautioned by a gunsmith to stay away from the Caldwell product as he had seen his share of cracked stocks and trashed scopes and mounts. He did though recommend the steady point rifle rest http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...-rifle-shooting-rest. saying that the construction of the rest allowed for more flex during recoil, also suggested to not use more than one bag of lead if no lead at all. If I use the rest for my double I place my hand under the barrels and use no lead.
I've been thinking of putting together a standing rest or to be able to bring a rest to bolt onto the typical shooting tables that one finds at their respective clubs so I may be able to stand.
Any thoughts would be welcome

I can't speak to doubles, but my buddy that runs SWFA advises against them due to the punishment on scopes. He wasn't just talking about Tasco, but also the high end Euros.

As to the scopes and the lead sled, I have two rifles that I used without issue over a few years that had the scopes slip in the rings when shot a few times on a lead sled. One a 404 Jeff and the other a 375 H&H. Both had Talley rings and both were tightened with a torque wrench to specs. So from that limited data set there does appear to be some added stress to the scope and mounts when used on a lead sled. Neither scope suffered any other damage.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Larry,
This subject has been talked about several times. I ask it when I got my first DR.

Since my first...I have shot several DR's off of Lead-Sled's with a lot of lead (100 #'s), Lead-Slead with a little lead (25 #'s), and my favorite...MTM with 50 lbs of lead.

I have heard all kiNds of stories about lead sled's with BA rifles as well. Stories about shooting to different POI and such.

I have never found it to be true.

Lane, the reason you haven’t found the shots to be at a different POI is because, as Graeme says, he, you, and I hold the fore-end and rest your hand on the front rest! This fact allows the barrels to flip properly to cause regulation.

quote:

ledvm:
My DR which is a Merkel .500 NE shoots exactly the same whether I shoot it out of my MTM or off sticks. I do hand hold the fore-end in the MTM just as I do standing. It also shot fine out of a Lead-Sled.

As I said...I DON'T practice out of mine...but I do use it for load work-up.

I switched to the MTM as I just can't see how the plastic rest with 50 lbs of lead shot weight could be any harder on a double than a large man's shoulder. I could buy into a Lead-Sled with a lot of weight breaking a wrist over time and I got the MTM to do load work-up on some old vintage doubles for friends.

As long as you hold the fore-end and allow the barrels to flip properly there will be no issues with regulation, no matter how large the chambering. The MTM has a lot of advantage over the Lead Sled, in that it doesn’t capture the but stock so tightly. Additionally the plastic give under the shock caused by the sudden recoil thrust. This is not limited to just the plastic , but the web strap also stretches slightly as well. It is my belief that the MTM will work better with a lot of weight than the Lead Sled because of the over all design of the rear rest being flexible while the sled is too solid.

quote:

Lead-sled with out weight would probably be fine too. As mentioned Greame Wright uses one and as mentioned...I have seen pictures of high-end makers using them for regulation work.

Please try it and report back you findings...I bet you will be pleasantly surprized...and there is now substitute for actually seeing with your own eyes.

As mentioned above Graeme thinks the key to the lead sled damaging stocks is directly because of the weight put on the sled, for a bolt rifle, but IMO, the damage to double rifle’s stock is more likely because of the twisting of the rifle combined with that heavy weight. The rife hitting that back stop with a lot of weight could accentuate the twist as well.

This will be more likely with doubles that are side lock, because of the wood being removed in the wrist area to accommodate the locks making the stock very weak in that area. Simply because you haven’t experienced the stock damage doesn’t mean it is not a possibility, and should not be relegated to the status of myth.

As long as the rifle is allowed to torque the way it wants under recoil neither the regulation nor the stock damage will be a problem, and only one shot may do the damage to the stock, and is not a chance I am willing to take. 4 , 5K for a re-stocking a double rifle for avoiding a little recoil doesn’t make economic sense to me!

It seems odd to me that people will risk damaging a very costly rifle when there is SMOKE indicating there may be a FIRE just under the surface waiting to flare up if given a little oxygen! The first shot or the 100th may be the one that gets the stock!
Gentlemen the warning still stands! Call it MYTH if you want! I use the MTM but I will not place one of my double rifle in a lead sled!


...................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Larry,
This subject has been talked about several times. I ask it when I got my first DR.

Since my first...I have shot several DR's off of Lead-Sled's with a lot of lead (100 #'s), Lead-Slead with a little lead (25 #'s), and my favorite...MTM with 50 lbs of lead.

I have heard all kiNds of stories about lead sled's with BA rifles as well. Stories about shooting to different POI and such.

I have never found it to be true.

Lane, the reason you haven’t found the shots to be at a different POI is because, as Graeme says, he, you, and I hold the fore-end and rest your hand on the front rest! This fact allows the barrels to flip properly to cause regulation.

quote:

ledvm:
My DR which is a Merkel .500 NE shoots exactly the same whether I shoot it out of my MTM or off sticks. I do hand hold the fore-end in the MTM just as I do standing. It also shot fine out of a Lead-Sled.

As I said...I DON'T practice out of mine...but I do use it for load work-up.

I switched to the MTM as I just can't see how the plastic rest with 50 lbs of lead shot weight could be any harder on a double than a large man's shoulder. I could buy into a Lead-Sled with a lot of weight breaking a wrist over time and I got the MTM to do load work-up on some old vintage doubles for friends.

As long as you hold the fore-end and allow the barrels to flip properly there will be no issues with regulation, no matter how large the chambering. The MTM has a lot of advantage over the Lead Sled, in that it doesn’t capture the but stock so tightly. Additionally the plastic give under the shock caused by the sudden recoil thrust. This is not limited to just the plastic , but the web strap also stretches slightly as well. It is my belief that the MTM will work better with a lot of weight than the Lead Sled because of the over all design of the rear rest being flexible while the sled is too solid.

quote:

Lead-sled with out weight would probably be fine too. As mentioned Greame Wright uses one and as mentioned...I have seen pictures of high-end makers using them for regulation work.

Please try it and report back you findings...I bet you will be pleasantly surprized...and there is now substitute for actually seeing with your own eyes.

As mentioned above Graeme thinks the key to the lead sled damaging stocks is directly because of the weight put on the sled, for a bolt rifle, but IMO, the damage to double rifle’s stock is more likely because of the twisting of the rifle combined with that heavy weight. The rife hitting that back stop with a lot of weight could accentuate the twist as well.

This will be more likely with doubles that are side lock, because of the wood being removed in the wrist area to accommodate the locks making the stock very weak in that area. Simply because you haven’t experienced the stock damage doesn’t mean it is not a possibility, and should not be relegated to the status of myth.

As long as the rifle is allowed to torque the way it wants under recoil neither the regulation nor the stock damage will be a problem, and only one shot may do the damage to the stock, and is not a chance I am willing to take. 4 , 5K for a re-stocking a double rifle for avoiding a little recoil doesn’t make economic sense to me!

It seems odd to me that people will risk damaging a very costly rifle when there is SMOKE indicating there may be a FIRE just under the surface waiting to flare up if given a little oxygen! The first shot or the 100th may be the one that gets the stock!
Gentlemen the warning still stands! Call it MYTH if you want! I use the MTM but I will not place one of my double rifle in a lead sled!


...................................................................

Agreed...the MTM is the way to go.