I finally got to the range with my 500 N.E. (Heym). Some of you know that my last lot of R-15 was quite hot, I was getting 2130+fps using 89 grains for solids and 90 grains for the softs (most other 500NE users on AR were telling me it was taking them around 96 grains of R-15 to equal this velocity). Anyway I ran out of that R-15-bullseye powder and decided that I would start by upping the grainage of my new lot of R-15 by 1.5 to 2 grains chrono and see what I get.

Results: Using Oehler chrono with screens on four ft.
1. GS 540g solids using 90.5 grains of R-15 got an average velocity 2070fps.
2. 570 grain Woodie softs using 91.5 grains of R-15 average velocity 2070fps.
3. Hornady 570g DGS using 91 grains of R-15 average velocity 1987fps. Granted the GS solids are 30 grains lighter I can't believe that they are close to 80fps faster than the Hornady's.

My particular 500 Heym for some reason seems to create higher velocities than some other 500's. Even though I needed more grainage of R-15 from this lot than the last lot of R-15 it looks as though I will be getting my beloved 2150fps with 93-94grains of R-15. Am I thinking correctly that I will gain about 25fps per grain of powder working the loads up to 2150?
Have any of you found that the new Hornady solids (any caliber) seem to not build up as much chamber pressure as GS, Woodie, or some other solids thus having to increase your grainage to compensate for lower velocities?

Dirk, what kind of scale are you using?

I just talked with Aaron Ceder at Hornady this afternoon regarding the DGX jacket material compared to the Woodleigh. He is sending me a box of 470 DGX to reload and compare. He helped in the development of the 470 loads for Hornady. He works in the brass mfg plant for Hornady. He said they just got in their first batch of 500NE brass to start loading for production.

Anyway, he advised that the jacket for the Hornady bullet was harder than the woodleigh and should not expand like the woodleigh going into the rifling. So I would probably have to increase the powder charge slightly above that with the Woodleigh since the pressure should be less with the Hornady.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:

Anyway, he advised that the jacket for the Hornady bullet was harder than the woodleigh and should not expand like the woodleigh going into the rifling. So I would probably have to increase the powder charge slightly above that with the Woodleigh since the pressure should be less with the Hornady.

"should not expand like the woodleigh going into the rifling."

Can you explain this further ?

Don't understand what you are getting at ?

500N,
I do not have a science or physics background so my understanding/explaination is elementary. I originally talked with Mr. Ceder at Hornady because I was having case problems with Hornady 458 brass. In the discussion, I was having pressure problems with Swift A-Frames compared to no problem with Hornady DGX and DGS bullets. Mr. Ceder told me that they had had a similar problem with 458 Lott brass and it also involved an individual loading Swift A Frames.
They had conducted tests with both bullets in their labs/range for metal hardness, etc. (Mr. Ceder is involved with the Hornady brass mfg process.)

The pressure on the base of the bullet causes the base to expand and or torque to some degree.
The copper jacket of the A Frame was softer than the copper clad steel jacket of the Hornady dangerous game bullet. I had to reduce the powder charge for the Swifts to reduce the pressure compared to the Hornady bullet but still got the same velocity.

Ed

Your discussion is a bit confusing - brass, SN bullets, Solids
- you seem to chop and change your discussion.

the Swift A Frames have a solid component across the middle
and so are unlikely to be compressed as much - if at all -
and some people will not use them in DR's for this reason.

Secondly, Woodleigh's are tapered so only the base of the bullet
is exactly the size of the bore (they follow the original Kynoch design.

Are you talking solids or SN when talking about "expanding into the rifling" ?

You also talk about hardness of metal but then chop and change between discussing bullets and brass cases. it doesn't make logical sense what you are saying. (My suggestion is leave Brass cases out of it as it has FA to do with the bullet discussion)

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Dirk, what kind of scale are you using?

New RCBS eletronic scales also checked it with RCBS mechanical scale with both agreeing on the load weight.

Have you slugged the barrel? Maybe is it smallish diameter wise?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Have you slugged the barrel? Maybe is it smallish diameter wise?

Could be, have not slugged the barrel, it is very accurate so it's not been a priority. One things for sure Mike, I'll be using less R-15 than you will in your 500 N.E.

That's why I buy mine by the 55 gallon drum!

Sorry about what sounded like a choppy explaination, I had an emergency call while I was trying to answer dirklawyer's question about less chamber pressure with the new Hornady solids. On the phone with an individual today at Hornady in metallurgy, he told me that I would probably have to increase my powder charge to get the same velocity with their new DG bullets (soft or solid) compared to Woodleighs. This confirms dirklawyers findings comparing the new Hornady solids to others. The gentleman at Hornady went into more explaination regarding differences in jacket materials, construction differences, etc. as to why the new DGX (softnose) and DGS (solid) created less pressure compared to others. I will leave it at that.

My original question to Hornady was several months ago regarding their 458 brass. That turned out to be a pressure issue as well not a brass problem. It again was a difference in pressure created by a Swift A Frame bullet compared to a new Hornady DGX bullet. The Hornady bullet required 1.5-2 grains more powder than the Swift to get the same pressure.
It was not a matter of soft or solid, but jacket material and construction.

Thanks

BTW, I have yet to have 2 double rifles of the same calibre using the same brass and bullets use exactly the same powder charge, always seems to be a bit of a difference.

And as to different types of bullets, well, I use different powder charges for Solids and Softs of the same manufacturer anyway so from a different manuafcture, I am not sure why you expect them to be the same. And changing a component normally means drop 10% and start working out a new load - for safety's sake.

You can go in depth to the n'th degree on this type of info, personally, I work up a load that shoots and go shooting / hunting !!!!

Do you have a pressure measuring gun ?

dirklawyer,

Let me have your barrel length and the col of the three loads. A quick and dirty QL look at the data you gave up top shows a fair difference in pressure between the three bullets/loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
dirklawyer,

Let me have your barrel length and the col of the three loads. A quick and dirty QL look at the data you gave up top shows a fair difference in pressure between the three bullets/loads.

Gerard, the col on all three loads (Woodie softs, your solid and the new Hornady solid) is 3.750 inches and my barrel length is 24inches.

dirklawyer,
You have a PM.

FYI, the difference in velocity between the Hornady DGS and the GS solid is because the Hornady bullet measures .509 average while the GS and Woodies measure .511 thus the pressure difference=velocity difference.

Some Heyms have undersized lands which in turn engrave the bullet more than most rifles, and hence more pressure with any bullet.