Unless it was an early name for the .38-55 I don't know what this is, except an early hammerless H&H. I have no financial interest and no intent to bid...

Link

Likely a 375 2 1/2 straight wall 375

Way too early for 375 flanged, which is nitro.There is a 360 2 1/4 blackpowder first listed 1884 Kynoch. 190 grain lead bullet. Listed in cartridges of the world. Bob

This rifle was discussed on NE. Unfortunately the site is currently crashed and not up and running yet.

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
This rifle was discussed on NE. Unfortunately the site is currently crashed and not up and running yet.

Any conclusion on what caliber it is?

IIRC, I believe the conclusion was rebarreled from a shotgun but not really sure. Will have to wait till the site becomes available again. Cannot recall what those gents decided on a caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
IIRC, I believe the conclusion was rebarreled from a shotgun but not really sure. Will have to wait till the site becomes available again. Cannot recall what those gents decided on a caliber.

I also don't know enough about those old ones to know why it has a tang safety plus appears to have a side safety for each barrel.

Here’s the link to the auctioneer site - the photos may be better or bigger there:

https://richmondfirearms.com/F...e_Rifle_-LOT222.aspx


This type of rifle doesn’t appear to be a common item at this auction house.
Simply taking the barrels off and photographing the barrel flats would be a major help.
Also, H&H is quite helpful in looking up the records of their guns so that would go a long way in clearing up the mystery too.
IMO, the auctioneer owes the seller and buyer both at the least.

I agree that having safeties on each lock as well as the top tang safety is weird.
What is most unusual, and what leads one to think that it was originally a shotgun, is the oversized action balls as compared to the barrels.
I’ve seen this on some old Hollands but this one is way out of proportion - looks terrible.
Plus, the balls are quite squat front to back which is more in the style of a shotgun action.

As to the “38 caliber” designation, knowing how many auctioneers work, they probably just took a 38 Special cartridge and stuck the bullet end in the muzzle and said “38 caliber” - that’s how dumb some of them are!
It is likely either a 360 No.5 Rook or the 360 2-1/4” BPE mentioned above. They could have at least made an attempt to estimate the cartridge length too.

The gun is made in the pre 1887 period proofact. If the "38" is marked on the barrelflats it could actually mean its a .500cal.

Looks like the barrels are offset far enough for it to be a rimfire. Maybe there's another set of barrels that are centerfires?

Unless I'm mistaken an AR member is the high bidder.

Ok guys I have the rifle in question in my possession and have picture available to text someone of the barrel flats and receiver water table(inside beside the firing pins is marked "pat. gas check") and rib. I too am trying to figure this out. The rifle is tight and on face, overall very nice, bores are dirty but should. clean up to excellent. Would appreciate any help what so ever. I assume H&H has a way to get factory information, any guidance here would be great.
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by wesley timmerman:
Ok guys I have the rifle in question in my possession and have picture available to text someone of the barrel flats and receiver water table(inside beside the firing pins is marked "pat. gas check") and rib. I too am trying to figure this out. The rifle is tight and on face, overall very nice, bores are dirty but should. clean up to excellent. Would appreciate any help what so ever. I assume H&H has a way to get factory information, any guidance here would be great.
Thanks

I am almost positive you outbid BuckStix for that rifle

An email to Holland and Holland with the available information would be my first move.

Received the factory information on my H&H yesterday.Here's the scoop.
Holland & Holland No.2 Hammerless model, .360 express caliber, received factory load data, all measurements were spot on unaltered, manufactured 1886. Now I am contemplating taking it to Africa next year. Thought you all might appreciate the factory information.
Thanks