Just wondering when the first over-under double rifles appeared on the scene. Anyone know?

Over under rifles have been built in Germany from the flintlock era so mid 1700s would be a good starting point.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Over under rifles have been built in Germany from the flintlock era so mid 1700s would be a good starting point.

There are examples of flintlock muzzle loading over unders in the USA durring the revalutionary war in the 1700s. Most of the ones made in America were swivle barrels, with only one lock. In fact the muzzleloader fire arms are responcible for all double barreled rifles because the muzzle loader were so slow to re-load they were a real suprize to the Brittish troops. With the swivel barrel all you had to do is recharge the flash pan, and you had a reserve shot ready while you were reloading the fired barrel. These rifles suprized hell out of the British troops as well as the Indians, who tended to rush you after you fired one shot. BIG MISTAKE!

With the S/S muzzleloader double rifles you had two locks nothing had to be done to the unfired barrel while reloading the fired barrel, and the flash pan loading was for the fired barrel, this was even faster shot for shot, and in muzzleloader days the S/S was prefered for dangerous game.

Cartridge O/U double rifles were, and are mostly chambered for rounds of 9.3 or smaller, and are generally bused most for large deer and wild boar! The big bore double rifles are most times S/S configuration and are generally considered better suited for dangerous game!

However O/U double rifles have been around for about 300 yrs, and are still mostly used for different hunting than the S/S double rifles today.

Man talk about vintage double rifles!

Guess I should have specified cartridge doubles. I am aware of the older muzzleloading pieces.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Guess I should have specified cartridge doubles. I am aware of the older muzzleloading pieces.

OK the short answer is, I think the O/U cartride double rifle first came from Germany, as soon or shortly after the first S/S as cartridge firearms were available the safety factor of having two barrels was already set in the minds of the rifle makers and hunters of dangerous game. So the exact time the first cartridge double rifle was offered, or from what country is imposible to say but it was surely close to when the first cartridge rifles were made!

Everyone thinks the Britts were the owner of the double rifle design, but double rifles have been used by locals in Germany far more than any country in the world, and many of the best made double rifles in every practical way other than style come from Germany as well.

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As a follow up question on Mac's comment, are the reasons for the smaller bores on the O/u's related to the use of the guns, or to the need for bigger barrel diameters and action depth, or something else?
Thanks
Bfly

quote:

Originally posted by Black Fly:
As a follow up question on Mac's comment, are the reasons for the smaller bores on the O/u's related to the use of the guns, or to the need for bigger barrel diameters and action depth, or something else?
Thanks
Bfly

BFLY, The O/U doubles are really not well suited to very large cartridgesm and because vertually all are built on either a true mono-block, or simi mono-block barrel joining system the actions get pretty large and heavy with very large chamberings. Add to that they are very slow to re-load for a follow-up when the first two doesn't do the trick. You will rarely see an O/U chambered for a round larger than 9.3X74R or 375Flanged magnum, because of these two factors. Also because of the depth of the action it is much harder to fit the barrels so they mate tightly with the breech face and the rifle must be opened much wider to reach the bottom barrel. I have both types and I like the O/Us for smaller cartridges and with scopes mounted for North American hunting of the very large deer, and black bear, but prefere the S/S for larger chamberings, and on dangerous game of Africa and for even the Brown Bear of Alaska. I find as most do that the S/S is faster to reload, and much better for instinctive shooting, which are both life savers with large dangerous game.

I re-load a S/S from two rounds on the back of my trigger hand which is only five inches from the chambers with my right hand still on the pistol grip with the two rounds held in the left hand as the picture at the bottom of my post shows! Very fast, and this doesn't work with an O/U.

Heym makes an O/U in large chamberings, but I doubt you will see many of them in the field in Africa, and one reason is IMO, they don't sell many of them because most prefere the S/S double rifles!

When you get down to the choice between the two types, it is simply up to the person who is spending his money for what HE wants not what everyone else wants! If the O/U floats your canoe paddle on down stream, it's your money!
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Thanks, kind of what I thought, but I didn't have any real info to back my assumptions.
Bfly

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Just wondering when the first over-under double rifles appeared on the scene. Anyone know?

Germans call it (O/U) Bockbuchse.

In 1931 Merkel registered a trademark on the rights to the term “Bock” (over-and-under) for hunting and sporting rifles.