Looking at a Sabatti Classic 92ME Double Rifle .45-70. Like to get some of your thoughts on this rifle. I do not want to spend too much because this rifle will get a good amount of abuse. I need something for close range bear hunting with hounds. Our woods are thick and quite commonly we have to crawl and wade through deep V ditches. My biggest concern about the Sabatti is the accuracy of the grouping at 30 yards. A quarter of an inch can make a big difference on a charge or when you have to shoot in between hounds. Any information is greatly appreciated.

If you are quibbling about a quarter inch in shot dispersion then do not buy a double rifle; they typically are regulated to place both barrels inside two inches at 50 yards, or meters. Quarter inch shots are only for bench rest shooters, not field hunters and certainly not with a double rifle. I killed one bear with a double rifle, a 9.3; and one with a 45-70; both did the job well.
Just get some realistic expectations and you will like shooting double rifles. But not into a quarter inch at any range; not with both barrels that is.

You could do a lot better with a chapuis in .450-400, 9.3x74r, or .375 flanged.

There are lots of deals on the 9.3x74r guns, caveat is they are light for caliber.

Looking at many times the price on those rifles, above the Sabatti. And none of them shoot both barrels into a quarter inch.

Owning and hunting a double rifle is about history and tradition. A semi-auto modern 12 gauge loaded with a mixture of slugs and buckshot is definitely the best medicine for bears. Regardless of whether it's a brown or a blackie, when it's close quarters, shoot to kill. And I like a 12 gauge auto for my medicine. When I'm grouse hunting in Montana, I carry a drilling loaded with shells and a 9.3'rifle just in case!

I think you will love the Sabatti 45-70 for deep woods bear. I've shot two mule deer with mine, one at 20 yards and the other at 5 yards. Good luck on your search.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
If you are quibbling about a quarter inch in shot dispersion then do not buy a double rifle;

...ain't that the truth. LOL!

Well, maybe for "some" double rifles:

I can assure you sir that a semi auto shotgun is not the gun you want in the bear woods. I use to carry one. Case being is the amount of times they misfire or jam. Last season a neighboring Outfitter had bear charge and the shotgun did not fire. Guide stuck the barrel down the bears throat to keep the bear off of him and the dogs. He then quickly shucked another shell and fired. Luckily the shell fired and it split the barrel so bad that it was difficult to get out of the bears mouth. We never allow buckshot because of the spreading and risk of injuring a hound. We typically use lever actions rifles. I would like to have a double for personal use and have one available to loan to my clients who prefer not to travel with guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
I can assure you sir that a semi auto shotgun is not the gun you want in the bear woods. I use to carry one. Case being is the amount of times they misfire or jam. Last season a neighboring Outfitter had bear charge and the shotgun did not fire. Guide stuck the barrel down the bears throat to keep the bear off of him and the dogs. He then quickly shucked another shell and fired. Luckily the shell fired and it split the barrel so bad that it was difficult to get out of the bears mouth. We never allow buckshot because of the spreading and risk of injuring a hound. We typically use lever actions rifles. I would like to have a double for personal use and have one available to loan to my clients who prefer not to travel with guns.

I agree for the most part having done a lot of hound following in the mountains of New Mexico for bear and lion.

I had two double rifles mono-blocked on Browning BSS 20 ga actions one chambered for 30-30, and the other chambered for 41 Rem Mag. They both were fitted with 18 in barrels and were a dream to carry and shoot, and both chamberings were fine for the up close and personal dealing with treed lion and bear.

If the OP doesn't want to buy a decent double rifle, then the best option for his purpose is a Marlin 45-70 lever rifle and have the barrel shortened to 18 in and fitted with a adjustable peep sight.

................................................................. Just my two pennies!

Got the lever rifle covered. A common safety issues we see with lever rifles is the hammer mistakenly getting pulled back from a green briar or vine while being carried on a sling. I see this all of the time due to the amount of walking and running we do in the thick bush. Even if you wait to load before you shoot there are several times where you have to move again before you take the shot. Do not see many second chances with gun accidents.

I have also seen shotguns go off by themselves. First time shotgun was hanging in a tree while we were pickup up decoys and the second time the gun was leaned up against the wall of a duck blind. Neither of these were cheap guns. Been guiding a long time now and the memory of the two guns firing automatically keeps me thinking about gun safety.

Sent you a PM

For a cheap, but tough option see if you can find a Baikal 45/70, or even the 30-06 version. Remington imported them for a short time.

Not a pretty gun, but they are a strong action, and a simple design. You can also regulate them yourself if you don't like the way it shoots.

Just a thought for a rough and tumble gun.

Jeremy

I appreciate all of the information. Found this online but back to the safety issues with the hammer. I would also guess that you would have arms like Rambo after carrying this through the bush all season. No sure the exact weight.


http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100827688

Sure the 500 BPE will make a fantastic bear rifle, but will not give you the quarter inch group with both barrels that you mentioned you had to have.
I have never seen a double rifle that would do that. Including the one in the picture above which is excellent, but still not a quarter inch.
I think you should make your criteria two inches and get a double rifle; any double rifle is cool. Side by side only of course; over and under are not really double rifles. Not sure what they are.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I think you should make your criteria two inches and get a double rifle; any double rifle is cool. Side by side only of course; over and under are not really double rifles. Not sure what they are.

..................................................................

Take a look at the Chapuis X4, its short, light, & has adjustable regulation. Then take a look at reflex sights (similar to a Docter Optic).

A few dollars more than the Sabatti but probably a whole lot less aggravation in the long run.

Bear rifle? The answer is found close by, posted by Kebco: the V-C .700.
Cal

quote:

A quarter of an inch can make a big difference on a charge or when you have to shoot in between hounds. Any information is greatly appreciated.

I like my 03 scout rifle or one of my revolvers for the close in stuff with hounds and bears.

My 44 red hawk did a find job on a wounded sow that turned on me at around 10 feet or less the sow turn the dogs jumped I drove a 315gr hard cast into her head down into her body.

A quarter of and inch might be a little bit far fetched but a couple of inches each way wouldn't be.

My idea of a bear rifle with dogs or over bait is a 30-30. Its always worked for me. A carbine in a 308 like a Win. or Sav. 99 or even a pump Rem is always good bear medicine..It doesn't take much to kill a bear.