A little project I've been working on lately. Was thinking of a mountain lion hunt with one of the members here and decided I needed a gun for it. Started life as a Rossi 20 gauge coach gun. One of the old ones with the cross bolt. Bored out the chokes to cyl, but left them rough (to strip the wads). Mounted a marbles front sight and made the rear. It appears my calculations were off because it's a bit short. That and I added a pad, swivels will be next. I'm up to 80 grains of 777 behind a .600 round ball cast from wheel weights. I'm using home brewed wads with some circle fly components in Magtech brass hulls. Haven't chrono'd them yet, as I'm still playing with different loads. No signs of pressure.

For those of you that have been pm'ing me with questions about the SPR22, I haven't played with it anymore. I've been working with an AR 22 conversion which has taken up my time. That, and it's been like "Africa Hot" here lately. I'll be getting to the Remingtons soon.
Mike
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Just fixing the image links.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJudgeOC:
A little project I've been working on lately. Was thinking of a mountain lion hunt with one of the members here and decided I needed a gun for it. Started life as a Rossi 20 gauge coach gun. One of the old ones with the cross bolt. Bored out the chokes to cyl, but left them rough (to strip the wads). Mounted a marbles front sight and made the rear. It appears my calculations were off because it's a bit short. That and I added a pad, swivels will be next. I'm up to 80 grains of 777 behind a .600 round ball cast from wheel weights. I'm using home brewed wads with some circle fly components in Magtech brass hulls. Haven't chrono'd them yet, as I'm still playing with different loads. No signs of pressure.

For those of you that have been pm'ing me with questions about the SPR22, I haven't played with it anymore. I've been working with an AR 22 conversion which has taken up my time. That, and it's been like "Africa Hot" here lately. I'll be getting to the Remingtons soon.
Mike

At what range were thoose shots fired?

Off hand at 25 yards. I can pretty much keep them in the black at 50 yards using a mono pod. Still working on the loads though. Going to bump it up to 85 grains next.

Mike

And that target is printed on a "Letter"-size paper?
Impressing, I might keep a copy of that picture and show to those who claim pumpkinballoads are inaccurate!

How about adding rifled choketubes and make a "semi paradox"?

What is the weight of the round balls?

I would be curious in the difference in velocity and power vs your loads and 3" Brenneke slugs.

Have you run those loads over a chronograph?
When you speak of 85 grains, do you mean to say that you're running black powder?
What have been the charges you've run so far, and of what powder?

I run .625 roundball in my 20-bore double rifle.
It shoots quite nicely.
Nothing wrong with roundball!



Cheers
Tinker

Tinker

What is the weight and velocity of your roundball loads?

.625" diameter of pure lead is 368 grains

My chronograph has been completely on the fritz.
Fortunately my 20-bore rifle works perfectly well with the maker's prescription of "2-1/2 Drams"


Cheers
Tinker

Yes, 8 1/2 x 11 paper.

The weight from my .600 lee mould is 315 grains with wheel weights.

I have not chronographed them yet. Still have to make some kind of stop to keep the wads from destroying my chrono. Probably a piece of plywood. I'm currently using Triple 7. I've used black and pyrodex, but the cases don't tip out with them. The 777 cases fall right out. I started with 60 grains and have worked up to 80. I tried some Unique but am not getting good ignition in the brass cases. Waiting on a .575 mould to use in plastic ones.

Mike

Do you guys have an estimate of your velocity?

What I am basically asking is, are your round ball loads any more powerful than 3" Brenneke 20ga slugs?

I ask because I use some combo guns with a 20ga barrel.

450#2-


I really don't think I'm getting 1475fpsMV (the claimed brenneke velocity with the One Ounce!? slug)

That 3" 20bore load looks pretty swift.
1oz slug?
Whoah Nelly - that's really working it for the little 20bore.

My guess on velocity for my rifle is 1250-1325fps
It'll be weeks (at least) before I get my rifle squared away in front of an operational chronograph.

From what I've seen and heard from other guys with similar rifles (who have chrono'd them) with similar loads (and hunted with said loads) is that anything from blacktail to tule elk is good for my table against what I'm running in my rifle.

Soon as I get the recent load of work settled and I have a chance to test the repair and healing to my knee, I'll get out and kill something with one of those little .625 balls.
Might just end up being down in Brady...



Cheers
Tinker

Tinker

Thanks for the info.

Brenneke claims 1476fps for their 3" 1oz [437.5gr] Slug.

Federal 2 3/4" Trueball 3/4 oz. slug, 1600fps.

Federal 3" 3/4oz Slug 1680fps.

I use my Blaser combo guns with 20ga bbls in wild pig and black bear country, so I was just wondering how y'alls 20 Bore loads rated in power.

Plus sometimes I use my 60 year old Savage 311, 20 ga 18.5" barreled shotgun for grouse, in bear country and I carry a few 2 3/4" Brenneke slugs in case I stumble upon a Bruin.

450#2-

The modern guns and the *really modern* slug ammunition are something for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Plus sometimes I use my 60 year old Savage 311...

My Purdey 20bore was built in 1862 to what would seem to have been 'light rifle' standards.
For what it is, it's a sweet-handling little cartridge rifle. I don't think I'll ever want for more (from it) performance than what it does with the roundball and black powder.



Cheers
Tinker

I have handles a few Purdey's over the years, all of them were very nice.

It's nice for sure, and if I make it to TX for the early '10 shoot you're welcome to kill something with it.

This little Rossi hammer rifle looks like it's going to be a hoot and a half for Mike though, and I'm looking forward to seeing how he does with 85 (or more) grains of powder.

Mike, when you say that the black powder and pyrodex loads don't tip out, are you saying that you're getting more case head expansion?

I'm really curious to see what your loads look like over a chronograph.
What's the locking lug configuration on this rifle?



Cheers
Tinker

After fighting with my chronograph today, I was able to get an average for my 80 grain loads. Not as fast as I expected. 1180 fps. I'm definitely going to have to up that a bit. Need to make some more wads and only have about a dozen balls left. Weather isn't looking good for casting.

There are no signs of pressure and what I meant to say was that the cases just fall out when I "tip" the bbls up. So far, the cases just slip all the way into the resizing die with no expansion at all. I am having problems with keeping the load secured in the second round. I use an over shot card and have tried water glass, elmers, duco and hot glue. Even after roughing up the inside of the case, the glue just doesn't want to stick.

I'm double gun illiterate so don't know what the various names for lock ups are. It has the two lugs on the bottom (under lugs?) and an extension from the rib and between the bbls that goes into the receiver. That has a cross bolt actuated by the lever. I've seen a few Rossi's without this last lock so I think mine is older. Sure looks older.

Mike

Mike-


What's your bore diameter?
What diameter roundball are you running - you noted a .600 mould?
20bore is typically in the .625"dia neighborhood - your roundball should be a couple thou over bore diameter or as much as a few thou oversize if you're running pure lead.
If you're running undersize balls, are you patching them?
What's your wad column like?

You need a good gas seal.
You need to keep those balls centered in the bore.
The increased pressure from a very good gas seal will likely get you more velocity.
That velocity looks low for 80 grains.

Also, just as a note here - I'm getting very very good pressure, velocity, and consistency with black powder - and I have been doing so with a few different bore rifles.

Don't run over-shot cards with your roundball.
That could lead to big problems if the card gets between the ball and the bore.
Do you have a roll-crimp die?
You can roll-crimp or star crimp the cases over the ball.
With .625 ball you won't likely need to crimp at all.



Cheers
Tinker

I would try a load of 75.2 gr. (2 3/4 dr) up to 83 gr of fffg (Goex BP). With enough of a wad collium to bring the RB high enough to be roll cimped in the case.(full length) Or shorten the case to the level of the load and then roll crimp.

With a round ball .020" under bore size, a regular shot cup "should" make for a tight fit in the case and the RB not to rrattle around in the bore. A 28ga felt wad may raise the RB enough if placed into the bottom of the 20ge wad shot cup.

I have had my best results with BP shotgun loads using fffg Goex (good vel./killing power)(10ga & 12ga loads). Wantto be / fake BP I have found lacking in performance.

Keith

Tinker,

Bore diameter is .615.
I'm using .605 diameter balls from wheel weights. I have a 18ga over powder card and a 1/2" fiber wad as a cushion. Around that wad and past the center line of the ball is manila card stock to take up the difference. Over all that is an 18ga over shot card to hold it in. This is in a mag tech brass case. I tried a roll crimp but that makes the cases a one, or at the most, two shot proposition. I don't have much more room in the case and will probably top out at 85 grains of 777. I was getting slow ignition with smokeless in those cases, but didn't have any mag primers. I think I'm going to try plastic hulls with smokeless next. All I have for data is from the Lyman shotshell book. Thanks for all the info, I really appreciate it. As for the gun, it shoots well. It's very comfortable and the sights are lined up when I shoulder it. It is very fast on target. I think I'll move the hammers a little closer together so I can cock on one quick swipe. I also have some factory slugs somewhere and will have to try those when I find them.

Mike