The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles New 600 NE AvailableGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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FYI, Just added this boom stick to my web site: L'Atelier Verney-Carron (Demas Artisan) double rifle in the 600 Nitro, 15.5 lb, 25.5" barrels, 14.5 LOP, Right hand stock with cheekpiece, Recoil Pad, sling swivels studs, ejectors, storage well grip cap, 3 leaf rear sight with gold line, day/night front sight, articulated front trigger, extended trigger guard, new in box with test target and proof house paperwork. This is the first 600 NE that V-C has ever made and I can get a factory letter if it is wanted. This gun can ship now, no waiting months or years. If you ever wanted a 600 now is your chance at a very good price. $24,000 and $100 shipping. Pictures can be seen at www.kebcollc.com look under firearms and then rifles. ken@kebcollc.com Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | ||
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Oh, man...wait until BigFiveJack sees this post! 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express  If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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Talked to Ken about this one last night and he says it's SWEET....I know my Demas 450-400 is. Compared to some of the other 600's out there...the price is very good. I'm only 6'-2" and 193#....too much for me!  Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
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Excellent value....14.5" LOP.....Ouuuuch! Trust me on that one! JW | |||
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Which is PERFECT for me! 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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well, well, another overpriced big bore rifle being touted as a "great buy " by all the uninformed !!! sorry ken no offense to you personally, but it is time to let the uninformed and gullible be appraised of the realities of big bore pricing ... or more appropriately BIG BORE OVERPRICING. the rifle makers, notably domestic ones have claimed " it costs more to make a 577 or a 600" well if that is so, please explain where these extra costs are... other than in the ammunition . i am waiting to hear about these costs please. Notice the deafening silence guys ??? it is a given that you have to have an action big enough to handle the 577 or 600. once designed that action does not cost anymore to make than a 470 or 500 action. i don't know about the 600 but a standard searcy action will take a 577 easily. i know, i bought one from butch and the action is the exact same one as the 470 of his i have. so there is no difference in action costs. it is the exact same action. barrel costs are the same - contact any barrel maker and see for yourself. there is no big premium for 577 or 600 barrels - they either make them or they don't. i can get chopper lump barrels from europe for about $2,800 ready to be fit onto the action. none of these big bores are using chopper lump barrels as far as i know. they are sticking sleevers into monoblocks. sleever barrel blanks cost about $160.00 each so where is this big price difference ? wood cost is the same, labor is the same. where is the add'l cost that justifies the huge premium for these calibers ? answer - it is all b-s being peddled to the unknowing gullible but believing customers. they accept this unthinkingly as if Jesus spoke it and it is Gospel rather than sales hype. wake up and think ! it takes the same time to build a 577 or 600 as it does any other nitro express..... or you are not an efficient builder. regulation time is the same. only ammunition cost is more. the only real difference is in the cost of ammo to regulate the rifle. that is it. period. does that justify a price two or three times the price of a 470 ? SORRY, NOT TO ME IT DOESN'T it is all marketing and sales hype to gullible buyers who believe anything they are told or sold. guys, wake up and think for once in your life. or continue to keep being screwed over ! and if you bought a true big bore and overpaid for it you can just consider yourself one of that elite group of people with more money than brains ! sorry, but i think you'll honestly agree that statement is true. don't be too ashamed - you have lots of company in that category who like to brag and show offa. and would never want to admit they paid too much...... even though in reality they did | |||
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Tom, I'm ready when you make a double on the Merkel or chapuis build quality for cost around 10-12K.  I agree it doesnt cost more other than they do not build as many as the demand is not as high. In production cost goes down as more componets are bought (ie barrels, reamers, ammo, ect)There for a 470 should be cheaper, but by that rational a 450 or 450/400 should be higher and they are not. I see what you are saying, I think it boils down to they can get it, and they do! I'd love another 577, but I'm not paying over 12K for it, sorry esp if it is going to be a problem to travel with a caliber over 50. My 470 and a 450/400 are looking better and better. Ed DRSS Member | |||
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The 600 is on hold pending funds, thanks for looking. Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
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ftondrus, I know that some guys put way more time into making the bigger calibers than the small ones. I happen to think that people like Butch Searcy and Ken Owen know how much time they put into building doubles. They have always been honest and up front with me. So either they are liars or you don't know what you are talking about. | |||
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505 Cant tell you about quality yet as I am yet to handle one, but I have found a custom builder in SA that will do a .577 or .600 for your 12k. He is a top notch gunsmith and builds rifles for some discerning Bots and Zim PH's PM if you are interested in more info Cheers Ian | |||
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So Tom...what is your answer to the problem that all these large bore rifles are over priced? Even if what you state above is true, you fail to provide any solution...other than don't buy a big bore. And as a side note...it looks like some people think their medium bore doubles are also worth a lot of money....take a look at the price this guy is asking for a Holland clone.... Description: THIS IS AN EXACT COPY OF HOLLANDS MODEL ROYAL DELUXE WITH ALL THE FEATURES. CHOPPERLUMP EJECTOR BARRELS IN 470 AND 375 BELTED. THE 375 BARRELS HAVE A KAHLES IN SLIDE ON QD WARNE RINGS. HAND DETACHABLE SIDELOCKS - INCLUDING AN EXTRA PAIR AND A PAIR OF FIRING PINS ALL IN A WOODEN BOX INSIDE THE FACTORY LEATHER TRUNK CASE.. MULTI LEAF EXPRESS SIGHTS, HOLLAND FOLDING NIGHT SIGHT, FULL LENGTH TRIGGERGUARD WITH PISTOL GRIP TRAP AND LONG TOP TANG OVER THE COMB OF STOCK. NICELY GRAINED & FIGURED WOOD. A ONE GUN "HUNT THE WORLD SET" WITH H & H LOOKS AT AN AFFORDABLE PRICE $39,995 NOW REDUCED TO $34,995.00 Price: $34,995.00 Premium Seller Company: CROWN PRESS ScreenName: TOM ONDRUS First Name: Tom Last Name: Ondrus State: OH Zip: 44010 Phone: 814-859-0008 Fax: CALL TILL MIDNIGHT Return Policy: 3 days Payments Accepted: CHECK, MONEY ORDER, VISA+ 3% ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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ROSCOE....you dirty dog... Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
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Roscoe, That ad for the H&H clone is obviously WRONG! Based on the analysis provided by the seller regarding overpricing, and the fact that he can obtain chopper lump barrels for under $3000, that price has to be a misprint. I'll bet that the price is actually $3,495, and someone screwed up by printing a price ten times that cost. Based on the anaylsis provided, that clone can't be worth more than 4 grand. Heck, anyone who thinks an H&H knock off is worth ten times that is:
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Jimmy: DOBA! "Dead On Balls Accurate!" 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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I like the sound of a well built 600NE for $9-12K. Sign me up for two. Now all that is needed is to talk Merkel or some other company into offering them at that price. Im in for two. Bike Rider | |||
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Only if it's weight is distributed in the U.K. pattern, that being 50% of total weight within the center 1/3rd of the overall length. Jack OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.} | |||
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Jack, For $9-12K I could live with the weight/balance being a tad bit off  24" barrels, one fixed rear sight, folding ivory front bead, ejectors and good wood. Tom get on the blower with your contacts at Merkel and see if they might be interested making the big 6 for the same price as the 500NE. It would be interesting to see what they say. Im sure we could get together an initial production run order of say 15-20 guns at that price. Keep us posted if you are able to make any head way. Bike Rider | |||
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Just one question........ What sort of accuracy, and at what kind of distance are we talking about?  DRSS & Bolt Action Trash | |||
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With the .600.....50 yards give or take. Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
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Gary, You missed my point....."Dead On Balls Accurate" From my personal experoence, the "Balls Accurate" has always been a very, very short range situation!!  DRSS & Bolt Action Trash | |||
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Yes, once you're deep in a bush, long range accuracy, even mere yards worth isn't relevant. Statistically, most guns are DOBA at maybe six inches, other guns, owned by the foretunate, up to eight or ten, very rarely longer. A few shooters have mastered longer range shots, but these fellows aren't deep in the bush at the shot. Bore diameter doesn't seem to have any correlation with longer range potential but I think barrel length does. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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So true. But there are more than a few that boast of their long range abilities. The same ones whose only hands on experience, however, is limited to a solo performance at the range, never venturing into the field. The same guys, when faced with a real life situation in the bush, who tend to shoot too soon or miss completely. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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I don't think you will ever see a Merkel chambered for 600NE regardless of price! What they would sell a ton of is, the ejector rifles chambered for 450/400NE 3", and 450NE 3 1/4". Both could be done on the present action used for the 375H&H, 416 Rig,470NE, and the 500NE. They also need to can the 375 H&H, for the 375 flanged, and replace the 416 with the 450/400NE 3", then add the 450NE! Their sales would go up considerably at their price point! Nobody is going to sell a lot of 600NE double rifles, simply because it is such a limited market for the 600NE. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Jim, Your so right. Typically these fellows are small bore fans, eh? How many times have you heard a fellow who has little bush experience try to tell you that size doesn't matter? No way a 9.3 or 375 can ever have the same effect in a bush as a 600! JPK Free 500grains | |||
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Agreed! Not many chamberings will have the same effect as the 600NE, but the 600NE rifle have their drawbacks as well! I personally would prefer a well ballanced 500NE than a 600NE double rifle. The 500NE, or even the 450s/470s are no pipsqueeks for hunting the deep cover! I've never owned a 600NE rifle of any kind, but have shot a couple, and I find them to be too damn heavy, and are IMO, simply an oddity that, in most cases, will never see the bush of Africa! I did own a couple of 577NE doubles, and simply did not like them. My favorites are 375Flanged, 450/400 3", 500/450NE, and 500NE! They will do anything I want them to do, and they don't need a set of axles, and wheels to carry them. Of course that is only my preference, and bears no pressure on anyone else's choice! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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While barrel length has some correlation to range in the bush the principle advantage to the longer barrels is balance and the bigger calibers generally deliver more knock up | |||
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Ahem - can someone take Mac aside and perhaps enlighten him on the hard turn this thread took a while ago? SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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Yea it will most likely never happen. If I hand any input into a new gun being built I would spec it to have 24" barrels and put most of the weight in the barrels near the receiver and a sharp taper to the muzzle. Muzzle diameter of about .800". Weight of 14 pounds. That barrel profile points really well! Not much heavier than a 500 and shootable at that weight. Bike Rider | |||
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Bike Rider, The problem with something that big is that it is difficult to get it into most bush, and you would probably end up not getting any (game that is). | |||
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QUOTE] Ahem - can someone take Mac aside and perhaps enlighten him on the hard turn this thread took a while ago?[/QUOTE] Jim, I envy him his purity of thought and tranquility. John | |||
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 I wish someone would enlighten me, because it is evident from jim's post above, I missed something!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac, You're the greatest!  | |||
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JohnAir, Maybe I am missing something here. Please explain "The problem with something that big is that it is difficult to get it into most bush". Are you saying its harder to carry a 600 vs a 500 into the bush? If so my reply is for those going hunting with any heavy gun 11 pounds or more is to get off their butts and start working out. If you are going to carry a big gun be prepaired to carry it for a long time. I always hear the 577 or 600 are too heavy. BS in my book. It only weighs a bit more than a 470 or 500. I would only want 22 or 24" barrels on the big 6. Or are you saying its not as mobile as a smaller lighter stick? I see no down side to carrying a 600 vs a 470. Bike Rider | |||
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Bike Rider, I'm just saying that you are likely to encounter considerable resistance to introducing something that big into the average bush  and in the ensuing effort to penetrate the bush with such a big gun you run the risk as Jim said of:
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MAYBE YOU CAN GET BLASER TO MAKE A CHEAP 600 NOBODY SEEMS TO WANT THEIR DOUBLE RIFLES. OR THEIR " INTERPRETATION" OF A DRILLING | |||
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Mac, you need to put your mind in the gutter and re-read the posts with a "dirtier" mind  577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
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Beer works too! | |||
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Did I join this thread too late to get in on the argument? | |||
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To paraphrase Bike Rider: If I was going to have a new one built...24"....
I'm right with you on the 14lb weight, but I'd be happy with half that length and a bit more diameter, personally. I'd even work out more so as to ensure I was always ready to instantly spring into action as a second's notice, even at the end of a long day. Bob DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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