26's rule, only because they don't make 28's anymore :-)

I am not sure about barrel length on a 500.This is all about getting close in tight spots too.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
26's rule, only because they don't make 28's anymore :-)

I prefer 24"s. I'm getting 2,100+fps in my 500NE with the 570gr CEBs. Not sure why I would need those extra 2"s of barrel to get caught on the jesse!

Still, I think a lot of the barrel length debate has to do with aesthetics and acquired tastes. For example, I hated the splinter fore-end when I first started noticing double rifles. Of course, the splinter IS classic English DR but it just didn't strike my fancy until I tried a rifle with both. I much prefer the way the splinter feels in the hand and have since developed a taste for the way it looks instead of the beaver.

The longer barrels are also, of course, classic English. But for some reason, I just can't develop an affinity for them. They just look cumbersome to me and unlike the way the splinter functions better, I just don't see how the longer barrels function better considering most shots on ele with a DR will be inside 25 yards and 50 yards on buffalo, therefore the need for the longer sight plane seems irrelevant.

Just a matter of tastes I suppose. And on the issue of DR barrel length, I suppose I'm just a boorish American!

Todd,

Would you mind sharing your load data for the 500 NE with the 570 CEB's.
Thanks
Rick

As they say, with some people all of their taste is in their mouth.

Just kidding of course Todd. If we all liked exactly the same thing just think of how boring that would be. There would be nothing to engage in esoteric debates over, debates where there really is no right or wrong answer. So in the spirit of having an existential debate, if 24" barrels are preferable to 26" because they are handier and less prone to hang up on brush, then wouldn't 22" barrels or even 20" barrels be even better? My guess is that at some point aesthetics do enter into the equation and you reach a point where the barrels are even too short to be aesthetically pleasing to you.

Have a good weekend.

Sincerely,

Sartre

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
As they say, with some people all of their taste is in their mouth.

Just kidding of course Todd. If we all liked exactly the same thing just think of how boring that would be. There would be nothing to engage in esoteric debates over, debates where there really is no right or wrong answer. So in the spirit of having an existential debate, if 24" barrels are preferable to 26" because they are handier and less prone to hang up on brush, then wouldn't 22" barrels or even 20" barrels be even better? My guess is that at some point aesthetics do enter into the equation and you reach a point where the barrels are even too short to be aesthetically pleasing to you.

Have a good weekend.

Sincerely,

Sartre

Mike, you're probably correct in that they could be too short to be pleasing to the eye. I do think 22" or even 20" would be more handy but I'm not so sure that would be pleasing to my eyes. Now Michael458 would think the 20" needs a set of wheels to haul it around!!

I will step back from my position, and have done so previously, in that I think the 26" barrels look more balanced on the 577 and 600. Doc's 600VC with the 26" barrels looks better than my 577 with the 24"s. No doubt about that one. But then, in the overall balance of aesthetics, the 500 with 24"s is very similar to the 600 with 26"s, so to my eye, the proportions seem to be about the same.

Going the other direction, with longer barrels, at what point do they look odd or become a hinderance in the field? Back when I was in college, I purchased a Winchester 101 Waterfowler 12 ga O/U with screw in chokes and 32" barrels. I was under the impression back then that longer barrels gave more velocity in shotguns in the same manner that they do with rifles. That gun was sweet to shoot ducks with but it never struck my fancy from just looking at it. It seemed out of balance. That shotgun may very well be the reason I don't fancy the longer barrels on a DR. I traded it a couple of years ago to pick up a 26" barreled Ruger No. 1 in 300H&H. That caliber really needs the extra 2".

Rick, my load for the 500NE and 570gr CEB is Fed 215 Primer, 93.5gr of RL-15 and it was giving me a bit over 2,100fps in 24" barrels. I also used IMR 4007 SSC prior to RL-15 (and have gone back to it for now since RL-15 is unavailable). Charge for 4007 SSC was 105grs. I never used the 4007 SSC with the CEBs only Barnes Banded and TSX. With the Barnes Banded and TSX, I was getting 1,975 to 2,025 with both powders. Just about 100fps less than CEBs. Once my new VC arrives, I'll have a chance to work up IMR 4007 SSC with the CEB and I can give you more info on that one at that time. If you have access to RL-15 however, I think I would recommend it over the IMR. Michael and Sam noted a small secondary spike with the 4007 which they didn't think was a problem, but it is there. RL-17 did the same and their data suggested that 4007 and RL-17 were similar in characteristics.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
26's rule, only because they don't make 28's anymore :-)

I prefer 24"s. I'm getting 2,100+fps in my 500NE with the 570gr CEBs. Not sure why I would need those extra 2"s of barrel to get caught on the jesse!

Still, I think a lot of the barrel length debate has to do with aesthetics and acquired tastes. For example, I hated the splinter fore-end when I first started noticing double rifles. Of course, the splinter IS classic English DR but it just didn't strike my fancy until I tried a rifle with both. I much prefer the way the splinter feels in the hand and have since developed a taste for the way it looks instead of the beaver.

The longer barrels are also, of course, classic English. But for some reason, I just can't develop an affinity for them. They just look cumbersome to me and unlike the way the splinter functions better, I just don't see how the longer barrels function better considering most shots on ele with a DR will be inside 25 yards and 50 yards on buffalo, therefore the need for the longer sight plane seems irrelevant.

Just a matter of tastes I suppose. And on the issue of DR barrel length, I suppose I'm just a boorish American!

Agreed. I would probably still have my 450/400 if it were not 26" barrels. And because of the weight. But the shorter barrels would have helped that and I most likely would still have it. It shot great.

quote:

My guess is that at some point aesthetics do enter into the equation and you reach a point where the barrels are even too short to be aesthetically pleasing to you.

Mike, great point. BTW, that "point" occurs just below 25.99 inches :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

My guess is that at some point aesthetics do enter into the equation and you reach a point where the barrels are even too short to be aesthetically pleasing to you.

Mike, great point. BTW, that "point" occurs just below 25.99 inches :-)

Beibs, I like em short in a Pistol as well!! Like a newly acquired FA83 in 454!! Getting ready to head out and check her out.

BTW ... Turd!!

Let the lead fly! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
As they say, with some people all of their taste is in their mouth.

Just kidding of course Todd. If we all liked exactly the same thing just think of how boring that would be. There would be nothing to engage in esoteric debates over, debates where there really is no right or wrong answer. So in the spirit of having an existential debate, if 24" barrels are preferable to 26" because they are handier and less prone to hang up on brush, then wouldn't 22" barrels or even 20" barrels be even better? My guess is that at some point aesthetics do enter into the equation and you reach a point where the barrels are even too short to be aesthetically pleasing to you.

Have a good weekend.

Sincerely,

Sartre

I will step back from my position, and have done so previously, in that I think the 26" barrels look more balanced on the 577 and 600. Doc's 600VC with the 26" barrels looks better than my 577 with the 24"s. No doubt about that one.

Wow, there has been an epiphany. I think I have this figured out now. You have a .577 with 24" barrels and that looks better than one with 26" barrels until you don't have a .577 with 24" barrels then the .577 with 26" barrels looks better. I have a prediction to make. The .500 that looks better with 24" barrels that you currently have will look better with 26" barrels once you no longer have the .500 with 24" barrels.

Just twisting your chain, my Boswell .500 has 24" barrels and it looks pretty darn nice too.

And yet another TURD emerges from the masses :-)

Biebs is right, another Turd!!

But all seriousness aside, Mike I think I've been consistent on my preference for the 26" barrels in the ultra bores (577 and above), simply because the barrels get pretty fat in those calibers. Here is an example of that from May of 2012: http://forums.accuratereloadin...841053571#6841053571

22 vs 24 vs 26
extractors vs ejectors

What is best just seems to be something that changes depending on the mood of most shooters here. One year one thing is popular, next year it isnt.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
22 vs 24 vs 26
extractors vs ejectors

What is best just seems to be something that changes depending on the mood of most shooters here. One year one thing is popular, next year it isnt.

Like VC then Heym!!

Rick,

I shot Todd's 500NE load (RL15) yesterday from my Merkel - formerly Todd's rifle - and my SIL shot them from his Merkel. 30 rounds total, all within 5" - most within a 4" bullseye - at 25 yards with a number of them Xs and 10s. All shots with open sights. CEB Solids and NonCons grouping very close to each other. It seems to be a good load.

I will say that the Hornady DGS and Federal Premium Safari (Barnes solids) shoot almost as well from these Merkel DRs. But having taken my last two Ele with the BBW#13 I am an adamant proponent of the CEBs, both solid and noncom.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I think I've been consistent on my preference for the 26" barrels in the ultra bores (577 and above) . . . .

Would you consider possible appointment as Secretary of Defense . . . I think you might do a better job in the confirmation hearings than Hagel?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I think I've been consistent on my preference for the 26" barrels in the ultra bores (577 and above) . . . .

Would you consider possible appointment as Secretary of Defense . . . I think you might do a better job in the confirmation hearings than Hagel?

Did that sound like ... spin?

I think I would want that extra 50fps that a 26 inch barrel gives compared to a 24.I do not know how it would point compared to a 24 but I have not heard many complaining about 26 inches.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
22 vs 24 vs 26
extractors vs ejectors

What is best just seems to be something that changes depending on the mood of most shooters here. One year one thing is popular, next year it isnt.

Like VC then Heym!!

We all have our favorites as it is our money One mans poison is another mans pleasure.

Sorry Wolfie. It was low hanging fruit for a response!!

Hi Butch
Can the rifle be ordered with stainless steel barrels as well?

Thanks
Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
There is no Field Grade 577 currently.

Great offer; thanks Butch. Are there any plans for a 577NE field-grade in the future?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I think I would want that extra 50fps that a 26 inch barrel gives compared to a 24.I do not know how it would point compared to a 24 but I have not heard many complaining about 26 inches.

Butch Searcy built my Classic 450/400 double with 26" barrels, and it balances very well. I did not specifically ask for the 26" barrels when I ordered the rifle, but I like them nonetheless. (Butch does tend to build them the way he likes them!) I also have a V-C round action 450/400 with 24" barrels that I like just as much. It also balances well. When I pick a 450/400 double out of the safe to go to Zimbabwe, my choice is more like choosing between a blond and a red head - no bad choices there!

I agree no one knows the rifles more than the person who is behind there making and shoots them himself.I think the 450-400 is a little to light for DG-just my opinion.It is good to know that the 26 inch Searcy balances well.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I agree no one knows the rifles more than the person who is behind there making and shoots them himself.I think the 450-400 is a little to light for DG-just my opinion.It is good to know that the 26 inch Searcy balances well.

I think that if I was a PH and I was counting on my double rifle to be a real stopper, I would agree with you and step up to a 470NE or 500NE. As a hunter, my opinion is that the 450/400 is more than adequate for buffalo and smaller. It may be a tad light for elephant, but I did harvest a tuskless with my 450/400 Searcy last year without any difficulty. If I had a trophy bull elephant hunt lined up, it would be my Searcy 470NE that I would be toting.

26 inch barrels on the 470?

quote:

26 inch barrels on the 470?

But of course, unless 28's are available :-)

I guess a 450-400 is alot like the 375 H&H.

26" for me from 375Fl on up.
Just aesthetics, though and the 2" difference makes no difference for me in the thick stuff in the field.

Thanks Todd and LionHunter.
That is my project for today, load some CEB's for the .500 that I don't have yet. After all the support for the CEB's (I have yet to kill anything with them yet) and my experience with Woodleighs and Hornadys, I believe the CEB's have a future with my rifles.
I also am having a tough time finding RL15 I'm in pretty good shape I think for the time being but....I've had 40 lbs on order for quite some time and don't believe it is going to materialize.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I guess a 450-400 is alot like the 375 H&H.

Pretty much, it is. In fact, before the advent of the 375 H&H, many of the early African hunters considered the 450/400 to be the best all around African caliber. That place is now owned by the 375 H&H. In my opinion, the 450/400 is the good compromise between the 470 and the 375. It is big enough to take to the largest game, and the recoil is soft enough that you can shoot it all day, if that is what you want to do. About 20 full power rounds of a 470 is enough for me in one outing, and the 375 H&H, while capable of taking any game on the planet, is more of a plains game rifle I take with me to back up my double. If needed, I can use it on the big stuff, but mostly I shoot plains game with it.
BTW - my Searcy 470 has 24" barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I guess a 450-400 is alot like the 375 H&H.

Pretty much, it is. In fact, before the advent of the 375 H&H, many of the early African hunters considered the 450/400 to be the best all around African caliber. That place is now owned by the 375 H&H. In my opinion, the 450/400 is the good compromise between the 470 and the 375. It is big enough to take to the largest game, and the recoil is soft enough that you can shoot it all day, if that is what you want to do. About 20 full power rounds of a 470 is enough for me in one outing, and the 375 H&H, while capable of taking any game on the planet, is more of a plains game rifle I take with me to back up my double. If needed, I can use it on the big stuff, but mostly I shoot plains game with it.
BTW - my Searcy 470 has 24" barrels.

Are you happy with the 24 on it or would you have preferred a 26?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I guess a 450-400 is alot like the 375 H&H.

Pretty much, it is. In fact, before the advent of the 375 H&H, many of the early African hunters considered the 450/400 to be the best all around African caliber. That place is now owned by the 375 H&H. In my opinion, the 450/400 is the good compromise between the 470 and the 375. It is big enough to take to the largest game, and the recoil is soft enough that you can shoot it all day, if that is what you want to do. About 20 full power rounds of a 470 is enough for me in one outing, and the 375 H&H, while capable of taking any game on the planet, is more of a plains game rifle I take with me to back up my double. If needed, I can use it on the big stuff, but mostly I shoot plains game with it.
BTW - my Searcy 470 has 24" barrels.

Are you happy with the 24 on it or would you have preferred a 26?

I am very happy with the 24" barrels on my 470. I have taken 4 buffalo with it with no problem.

Admiral, what are you getting on your Bradshaw 9.3x74R?

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Admiral, what are you getting on your Bradshaw 9.3x74R?

Biebs - I honestly do not remember. Hey, cut me some slack - it was ordered over 2 years ago!

Shootaway - for what it's worth my Searcy 470 has 24" barrels too.

The vast majority of 470s that have been built by Butch have 24" barrels.

quote:

The vast majority of 470s that have been built by Butch have 24" barrels.

Hey, it's never too late to right a wrong :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs
Hey, it's never too late to right a wrong :-)

Spoken like a true Democrat.

quote:

Spoken like a true Democrat.

Not in this household....or town for that matter.