I just got hold of a Mcloughlin 500 NE. It was original a 500 ex BP, but reproofed for 500 NE in 1991. I have been having some trouble finding ammo here in Denmark, but finally found a box of Krieghoff 500 NE. Problem is that when loading the left camber I an unable to close the action. The overall length of the cartridge is 94,5 mm so it should not be to long. It seems as tough the shoulder of the bullet engages the rifling. Anybody had the same problem? I could load myself and seat the bullet deeper, but now I am a bit worried if the gun can handle the NE load!

Good hunting

CF

Check the rim thickness

Color the case with magic marker and then try it again. It will show you where it is tight. Most likely the base diameter of the case is too large.

Where was the gun reproofed?

It could be a number of things.
Rhe bullet ingaging the rifling, that chamber beign a little short, the rim of the case too thick, or the diameter of the chamber being a little small for that case.

Try this, take the barrels off of the action. Insert the case into the chamber by hand.
you might be able to tell where it is hanging up.
If it goes all the way into the chamber, then see if the rim is flush like the other chamber is, when you drop a shell into it.

It would be agood idea to have a good double rifle smith look at it

The gun was reproofed in London. To me it seems as the freeboore is to short. The lands sets marks on the bullet when I force the action closed. So it could be something to do with the bullet profile?. Does anybody know what bullets Krieghoff uses?

All the Krieghoff ammo I have seen was loaded with Woodleigh bullets.

If it was originally a Black Powder DR, the throat may, and probably is, too short for the longer and heavier jacketed bullets. BP cartridges never used 570 grainers like the 500 Nitro. So, you will need it re-chambered (throat only) to accommodate the longer bullets. Firing rifles with bulllets jammed into the rifling increases pressures and this is one situation where you don't have margin of safety to spare. My opinion of course. Easy job, though, to cut the chamber longer. You can do it by hand if you have a reamer.

I would be concerned about the regulation. The 500 BPE 3" was for 136 gr. of powder and a 380 gr paper patched bullet for a listed velocity of around 1,800 fps. This is quite different from a 570 gr. bullet at 2000 or so. Proof and regulation are two different issues.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
If it was originally a Black Powder DR, the throat may, and probably is, too short for the longer and heavier jacketed bullets. BP cartridges never used 570 grainers like the 500 Nitro. So, you will need it re-chambered (throat only) to accommodate the longer bullets. Firing rifles with bulllets jammed into the rifling increases pressures and this is one situation where you don't have margin of safety to spare. My opinion of course. Easy job, though, to cut the chamber longer. You can do it by hand if you have a reamer.

I thought there was a long range load with a 570 paper patch bullet? Also have seen a 70 grain cordite load with a 570 bullet listed somewhere. Maybe some cartridge collectors could tell us what loads were made for the 500 BPE.
As far as reproof I'd want to be sure it was proofed in England and for the full 80 grain nitro load.

Here an update on my 500 NE

After having problems with the freeboore when using Krieghoff factory ammo, I loaded my own with Hornady 570 soft and solids. Loading is no problem now. (Following up on your advise I wanted to make the freebore longer and ordered an throat reamer from Pacific Tool, but after they got my card information I heard no more! )

I shot for the first time yesterday. 570 grain Hornady with 90 grain N140. This is a light load and as expected shoot 17 cm (7 in) apart horizontal. But the left barrel shoots 22 cm (9 in) high!! Now the questions; Is there any chance it will regulate with other loads? Will a barrel shoot high if the gun is not held horizontal when firing?

CF

Carl, have you got a copy of "Shooting the British Double Rifle" 3rd edition by Graeme Wright, that is the place to start, best

Hi Mike

Yes I have, but I cant find anywhere in his book or else where how much one can expect to move bullet impact when changing loads and bullets

CF

Generally, changing bullet speed or weight will have an effect on convergence, grouping on a horizontal plane.
Your vertical spread may have to be sorted with re-regulation.
I would keep playing with NFB loads and stay away from full nitro loads. IMO, shooting full loads will make for a short service life for your rifle.

I would agree that you should look at loading NFB loads with lighter bullets and see how it shoots. What does the reproof call for as load if any?

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
What does the reproof call for as load if any?

3250 bar London prof marks 1991

I bought this rifle to shot elephant later this year. NFB will not do.

The gun is very tight and fine and has been on safari with nitro loads with the former owner. Unfortunately he can not recall anything about loads ect.

I am not ready to give up the nitro loads just yet
CF

Carl,

Take a look at the thread 500 Nitro a new exploration or go to Michael458s B&M site and look at the data we have done for the 500 nitro. I would use the lower pressure loads with velocities around 1950 to 1990 fps which match factory Kynoch and others. You still might need to go with a lighter weight bullet to get the gun to regulate. Since you are already using VN140 I would increase that load a grain at a time until your barrels come together. 98 grains in my gun showed a velocity of a little over 2000 fps and pressure of around 42000 psi. These velocities and pressures are in my gun only and are compared to some factory loads. Be careful! Go to wikipedia and check out the 500 nitro, it shows a max pressure of 2800 bar so your gun was proofed higher. Interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Carl,
Since you are already using VN140 I would increase that load a grain at a time until your barrels come together. 98 grains in my gun showed a velocity of a little over 2000 fps and pressure of around 42000 psi. .

srose

Thankyou I am doing just that. Was out today and shoot 91 and then 92 grains VN140. The gun is still in one piece and things are looking better. Earlier on I asked if canting could make it shoot 9 in apart vertically? I can answer that question myself now; yes it will! Just by lifting my right elbow makes it shoot perfect in the horizontal plan. A little more speed now an I think it will be just fine.

I have been looking on your pressure data. Thank you for your good work and sharing it with us. The load data on the Norma ammo is very interesting. Very low pressure but with high variations. I spoke to Norma some weeks ago asking them if they had some loading data for norma powder on .500 NE. They did not as yet, but they told me that there factory .500 NE was loaded with powder that was not commercially available. Will you be doing more tests with the Norma ammo?

Good Hunting
CF

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

IMO, shooting full loads will make for a short service life for your rifle.

Might be but it is going to shorten the life of some elephant and buffalo first

Good hunting
CF

Carl, you are welcome and sounds like you are getting it figured out.
I think the reason some factory loads have low pressures and erattic curves is because they don't use filler and the powder is loose in the case. Michael and I saw this in our tests with the loads we had with loose powder. The problem I have with loose powder is that its not all lighting most of the time. What happens when it does decide to light?

Sam

CF

How much does that rifle weigh?

How long are the barrels?

Barrels 23 in. and gun weighing just short of 9 pounds.


CF

I used to own a Greifelt 500 BPE made in the 20s and nitro proofed. It only weighed 9 pounds and came from India; I would not, nor would I want to, shoot full NE loads in it. Anyway, I have never heard of a 570 PP black powder bullet for the .500 BPE and even if there was one, paper patched bullets did not use throats; they were bore size and would fit into the rifling and the black powder blast would obturate them to groove size. That is why bore sized PP bullets don't work well with smokeless powder. Good luck with your rifle. I wanted to answer your question.