I've only neck sized these cases (S&B) some 3 or 4 times, so I wasn't expecting trouble. First shot out of my left barrel (9.3X74R Chapuis), and the case completely separated. I've tried to extract the case remnant using a .45 Cal rifle brush jammed inside of the case remnant, but no success. I tried putting ice chips inside of the case remnant hoping that there would be enough expansion difference to loosen the case. The over sized brush didn't work this time either. I was going to try a couple of drops of super glue and then stuff the brush back in the case remenant, but no super glue in the house. Maybe I'm lucky in that regard! Any suggestions? DuaneB

A broken case remover comes to mind But they are caliber specific. Next bet would be a good gunsmith.

I recently had the same problem with my .470. I live miles from any skilled gunsmiths so ended up finding a tap that fitted and used that in the following way.

I very carefully inserted the tap into the case and gave it a clockwise turn with a spanner so it got a good bite on the inside of the offending case. My first effort at pulling it out didn't work so I carefully inserted a cleaning rod down the barrel from the muzzle until it made contact with the end of the tap, then gave the rod a controlled, short, sharp tap with a mallet........and out she came. I think if you approach it slowly and carefully you will do no damage.

Cheers.

GG

its sort of a last ditch effort, but it works. you have to be damn careful not to score the chamber but if you can fit the point of a sharp awl between the case and the chamber and gradually work it upwards it will collapse the case & you can pop it would with a rod from the front

ive used thread taps..... just a turn or 2 to make it stick.... then you can bump it out with a cleaning rod....

I tried a 3/8 X 24 tap. If it had been 1/16" shorter, it wouldn't have worked! I put it as shallow as I could in my tap wrench, twisted it in one turn and tried it by pulling. It pulled free. Next time I twisted it (probably 2 - 2 1/2 turns) until the tap wrench was more or less tight against the ejector face and then used a cleaning rod to sharply tap it from the muzzle. The case popped out slick as could be. No chamber damage. Thanks so much for the suggestion. Now I'm going to go find a 3/8" tap that is longer than the one I have and put it into my shooting box for a stuck case remover for the 9.3!! DuaneB

If you have any cerrosafe (for taking chamber casts) melt it,( about 190 degrees f) pour it in the broken off cartridge. Let in harden and tap it out from the muzzle. It shrinks a bit as it cools.

I have had several broken cases with S&B brass. Be very careful after the second reload. If You can see a ring around the case head throw it away. Norma brass will give you the same issue. The tap method works well and sometimes you can put a loaded round in the broken case and get them out.

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
I have had several broken cases with S&B brass. Be very careful after the second reload. If You can see a ring around the case head throw it away. Norma brass will give you the same issue. The tap method works well and sometimes you can put a loaded round in the broken case and get them out.

What Roscoe says. Although I have never tried S&B brass I have used Norma in my Chapuis. Brass was new and broke two cases in about 7-8 shots. Threw the entire lot away. I was able to tap the case out with a cleaning rod, possibly because it was loaded lightly. Never had any problems with RWS brass.

It happened to me years ago when I started handloading for my 9,3x74R. I did not succeed in removing the stuck case body by any means at hand and had to finally resort to a gunmaker. He later told me he had to use a chambering reamer ?!?

Since then I've learned my lesson and it didn't happen a second time. Actually,
as I see it, the problem's origin is twofold :

1. the near absence of a shoulder on the case alows the case length to grow at each firing when FL sized, substantially elongating the case ;

2. the very "handmade" nature of many fine double rifles often result in the 2 chambers not being exactly identical (they're hand-, not machine reamed). This means that cases sized one way must fit in 2 different chambers which will expand them differently on firing, before being resized in the standard manner. All this cold working makes brass brittle and more fragile ;

The solution I'd recommend is also twofold :

1. go to partial sizing, avoiding to bump the practically invisible shoulder (it's still there, so do not waste whatever little support there is). Hereby, we aim to control headspace by transfering it from the rim to the shoulder. When adjusting the sizing die for PS, try the case in both bbls. (they may not be identical, remember) and very cautiously close the action (it still must close with a little snap. Do not force it shut as I know of no faster way to bring a double off face !);

2. do watch your case length carefully and be intolerant about trimming need. Also, whatever the price you paid for your brass, it will always be substantially less than repairing a double rifle. So, act preventively and don't reload/size a case more than 2-3 x. After each firing, I also scrape the inside of the case with a bent wire to detect incipient separation at its ealiest stage.

Is this THE way to solve the problem, I don't know but it worked for me.

Some makes of brass are better than others. I have never lost a RWS case in the 9.3x74. I have some PRVI brass for my 7x65 that has been loaded 8 times and shows no sign of priblems. I have never lost a Federal case in my 470's but have had separation in Norma brass in the same rifles. I hope Hornady brass is of decent quality however I have yet to use any. As stated before the best way to prevent problems is to inspect all brass prior to loading. When you have one separate, look at the other brass of the same make and look in the area where the separation happened. If you see any signs of a ring in that area, save yourself the trouble and throw the stuff away. Andre is correct about loading technique and not pushing the shoulder back excessively however it is also very important that you size the brass enough so that it will fit correctly in the chamber and the gun will close correctly.

I second Roscoe's appraisal of RWS. It is good brass. Also the new Hornady 9.3X74R brass is well made!

The cerrosafe method is still the best for a stuck case. No drilling or sharp metal objects in the chamber or bore. I've used it twice and it is simple.


Dutch

Is there some reason that brass would have a shorter life in a double than a bolt gun or is this just a problem common to the 9.3X74 or S&B or Norma brass? I would think that just the opposite would be true since a most doubles generally operate at very moderate pressures. I shoot a lot of Norma brass in my 9.3X62 and I have found it to be really quality stuff.

How about Jamison brass? That's what I have been shooting in my .500/.416. It looks like really good stuff.

I do not know this to be fact however I would think the relatively thin nature of the case at the base and the lack of a significant bottle neck have a lot to do with the separations. However the issues appear more common with certain types of brass so my hypothesis may be all wet! I know the Norma brass stretches much faster in my 470 than any other type I use. Same can be said with the S&B brass in the 9.3 and 7x65R. I too have had decent results with Norma brass in my bolt guns. I also understand that the current brass they make for the double rifle rounds may be a little harder than the old stuff however I have not experimented with it to confirm. I need to get some of the Hornady brass and play with it. If case life is good then it may be a great option for all of us. In my experience RWS is a safe bet regardless. I just wish it was more available.

GG375 has it right, but there is a somewhat safer way. Get a set of "Easy-out"s which are used for extracting broken bolts. Find the right size for the remaining case piece. You can use a socket extension to turn it just slightly. IMPROTANT: you only need 1/8 of a turn or less. Then tap it out from the front with a cleaning rod.

Here's another vote for RWS brass, i've never had a bad case from them.

I got turned off to Norma brass long ago, as Weatherby factory loads were, (maybe still are) loaded with Norma brass... All of the Wby. brass i've ever used was too soft for my taste...

DM

The chamber reamer specific to the stuck brass and chamber is inserted into the broken breech end of the case with plenty of cutting oil saturating the brass and chamber from both ends.
Just a few turns with the reamer in a clockwise direction using a tap wrench or a T-handle reamer extension will usually have the broken case loose and spinning, easily removed with retraction of the reamer.

I take exception to the comment about Norma-Made Weatherby brass.
There is no way in hell it could be bad stuff when it can survive the Weatherby factory loads.
.375 Weatherby factory loads are outstanding,
delivering 2800 fps with 300-grain Noslers in a 26" barrel.
I have reloaded that stuff plenty. It is good.
Not "soft."
It is greater in capacity and lighter in weight than Remington (what brand isn't?)
and even Winchester and Hornady, when those brands are blown out to .375 Wby from .375 H&H.

Norma may be thinner near the neck and shoulder and/or it is a lighter and stronger alloy of brass.

I once got a .395 Ruger Max case stuck in the Hornady custom sizing die, during the necking up process. So simple and easy, I carelessy got not enough case lube on one of the cases.
Due to the design of the Hornady die, as well as other complications, I was unable to use my usual stuck case remover from RCBS that works so well with the RCBS dies.

In that case, I used the .375 Ruger reamer inside the .395 Ruger Max case, after the base of the stuck case was drilled out.

Just a few twists of the reamer with a tap wrench and oil and the stuck case was free.

If I recall if your getting stuck cases one of several possibilities or a combination has occurred.

I tried to find the excessive pressure measurements of spent cartridges but I can't seem to locate. From memory after the case has been fired the tolerance over a resized case at any location should be 3 0r 4 thousands more would indicate high pressure less low pressure, or brass that is to soft or to hard. but in a nut shell the case serves several purposes in addition to holding everything together and that is the case will expand under pressure to seal the chamber and when the chamber pressure drops the elasticity of the brass relaxes which allows the extraction. Now when you either use excessive pressure or to soft or to hard of a brass the case either does not expand enough to seal the chamber or expanded to quickly and doesn't relax to the extent needed for extraction. Again I assume a clean chamber since any debris rust oil etc changes the equation. Also re reloading old brass and the subsequent trimming that results causes the case walls to be thin and effects it relaxation properties plus head separation and splitting. It makes sense to keep the brass in a cylce kit so when one of the cases fails the whole bunch should be scrapped. I know some guys that buff the chambers to facilitate extraction however this is touchy since your running closes to the lans.

In my years of shooting I only had one case failure and that was with a Remington semi auto 30-06 which ripped the rim off a shell during extraction which ended a day of hunting to get the case out. Cause was a dirty chamber

FYI for you .470 Ne shooters out there a 1/2X20 tap is the one you need for separated case in the .470. I never leave home without it.

Rip,
Agreed that normally Norma is good stuff but the only brass I have ever used that has separated on the first firing has been Norma brass in my Chapuis. Where as I have never had RWS separate even after repeated reloading in the same rifle. And the Norma brass I have is from two different lots purchased years apart.
Would love to try the Hornady brass if anyone knows who has it in stock?

I've taken two separated 470 cases out with a cleaning brush.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by nopride2:
I've taken two separated 470 cases out with a cleaning brush.

Dave

Sometimes that works but often it doesn't.