Kynoch FMJ - 50 m. I hit the target but only just

Good Hunting

CF

Hello Carl Frederik Nagell

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not sure how I would do with factory loads. I've been working my way up slowly. My heaviest load so far gives 93 ft/lbs of recoil. That seems OK, and still fun to shoot. But factory loads would be 140 ft/lbs recoil. Not sure how much fun that would be so I'm going to approach that carefully.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Doc, you've got to bring yours up to my range and knock the dust off it :-)

When do you want to go?

Just loaded up half dozen 800gr S&H SHARC solids over 37gr Trail Boss, half dozen 900gr CEB #13s over same and a dozen 800gr SHARCs over 148gr Accurate 4350.

My 600NE with ballast is 13.62 pounds and balances at the hinge.
11.56 pounds without and balances a thumb breadth in front of the hinge.

I do all of my hunting and most of my practice without the ballast.
Like srose, I prefer the "pointability" with it a bit "muzzle-heavy".

Biebs,
I just put the lead back in as I know how delicate you are.

Doc, you schedule is much tighter than mine, for sure! Anytime is good for me....let me know.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I've said for years that if I was going to buy a new double it would be a VC. ..... Again, congratulations on your magnificent double rifle.
Cal

When you buy a book from Cal Pappas, be careful what he writes in it. ..... His prediction came true ..... and led to the purchase of this rifle.

Hello All,

Here is an update.

Since I had not yet fired my 600 NE with full-house Factory loads, I went to the range this morning to find out what it would do.

Holy Crap! ! ! ... That was Memorable! ! ! ... I don't think I'll do that again! ! !

I'm sure glad there wasn't anyone around to see me putting my dentures back in.

I typically shoot my double rifles on our 50-yard range from a standing position using a special bench with padded arm rests. In this case I shot on our 25 yard range with a make-shift set-up. I think that accounts for the slight shift to the "left" on the targets.

My VC barrels are 7/8" apart at the muzzle, so it looks like there is slight convergence at 25 yards, but I'm very much satisfied with the results - regulation being "right-on".

My reduced handload, which were more pleasant to shoot, resulted in nearly identical grouping at this range.

Very nicely done. Those VCs are nicely regulated!

Excellent groups.

Nice that the full-house and reduced loads shot to virtually the same POI. The 600 NE does get your attention, but you won't notice when squeezing one off at an Elephant 15 yards away :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Nice that the full-house and reduced loads shot to virtually the same POI. The 600 NE does get your attention, but you won't notice when squeezing one off at an Elephant 15 yards away :-)

Or better yet, at 5 yards!

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:

Now that is a perfectly regulated double rifle regardless of chambering!

............................................................ ...

I like to see good groups with doubles and these re outstanding. I also like to see groups measured correctly such as 3/4". Tell me, how do folks measure a four or six shot group to the third decimal such as .697". Is this really possible?
What say you, MAC? You know more of this stuff than I ever will. mAlso, MAC, our next shoot is May 7. See you there?
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I like to see good groups with doubles and these re outstanding. I also like to see groups measured correctly such as 3/4". Tell me, how do folks measure a four or six shot group to the third decimal such as .697". Is this really possible?
What say you, MAC? You know more of this stuff than I ever will. mAlso, MAC, our next shoot is May 7. See you there?
Cal

I doubt the groups above would show bad regardless of how it is measured!

Cal for a measurement of multiple shot groups you need to keep track of each shot from each barrel and find the center of each barrel's individual group and measure the distance between centers. this is the only way to measure a composite group for a double rifle, and is the only measurement that means anything where a double rifle is concerned. I like to use two targets for four shots from each barrel fired on it's own target, fired rt,lft, rt,lft, rt,lft, rt,lft. This to get each barrels group size as well.

Of course one can just measure the outside to the out side of the composite group of both barrels but that doesn't really tell you how well the regulation is. Only the centers of each barrel's group in relation to the other barrels center actually mean anything.

..................................................................Opinions vary however!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

Of course one can just measure the outside to the out side of the composite group of both barrels but that doesn't really tell you how well the regulation is. Only the centers of each barrel's group in relation to the other barrels center actually mean anything.

..................................................................Opinions vary however! [/QUOTE]


Makes perfect sense Mac.

Different topic perhaps , but do you find that its easier to find a regulation load for the larger calibers ( .577 , 600 ) as apposed to the smaller ones ( 9.3x 74 R and smaller) ?

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello All,

Here is an update.

Since I had not yet fired my 600 NE with full-house Factory loads, I went to the range this morning to find out what it would do.

My reduced handload, which were more pleasant to shoot, resulted in nearly identical grouping at this range.

Hello All,

Thanks for the replys.

Many years ago Elmer Keith wrote about reduced loads in double rifles and how they would regulate. I think he called it the "75% Rule". He said that if you used the factory regulation load as a starting point, and used 75% of that bullet weight at "full" velocity, or, "full" bullet weight at 75% velocity, the load would regulate.

I used the "full" bullet weight at 75% velocity. The Factory load chronogrphed at 1885 fps, so 75% of that is 1414 fps. My reduced load is within 11 fps and seems to follow that rule pretty close.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

Of course one can just measure the outside to the out side of the composite group of both barrels but that doesn't really tell you how well the regulation is. Only the centers of each barrel's group in relation to the other barrels center actually mean anything.

..................................................................Opinions vary however!

quote:

Makes perfect sense Mac.

Different topic perhaps , but do you find that its easier to find a regulation load for the larger calibers ( .577 , 600 ) as apposed to the smaller ones ( 9.3x 74 R and smaller) ?

Absolutely! Holland & Holland once built a double rifle for a new .225 Winchester cartridge with a .224 dia bullet at 3600 fps built on the 30-30 case from Winchester for an American buyer. They said they would never again build another one because of the difficulty of regulating the rifle.

The bullet being so fast, and the recoil so little that the muzzle flip was so small that the increments of muzzle flip were almost microscopic. that the regulator was pulling his hair out before he got the job done! A 600 Nitro can be regulated with fewer rounds by comparison.

...................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello All,

Thanks for the replys.

Many years ago Elmer Keith wrote about reduced loads in double rifles and how they would regulate. I think he called it the "75% Rule". He said that if you used the factory regulation load as a starting point, and used 75% of that bullet weight at "full" velocity, or, "full" bullet weight at 75% velocity, the load would regulate.

I used the "full" bullet weight at 75% velocity. The Factory load chronogrphed at 1885 fps, so 75% of that is 1414 fps. My reduced load is within 11 fps and seems to follow that rule pretty close.

Buckstix, I'm glad you posted the Elmer Keith's talking about the 75% rule years ago. I have seen several people here claim the 75% rule to be their own finding, while I don't know who actually found this method to work, but I do know it was discovered long before some of the claimers were born! Keith was using it as long ago as the early 1960s and maybe before that!
....................................................................

You measure group size center to center, by going from the outside of the rightmost bullet hole, to the inside of the leftmost hole. That will give you the center to center measurement without actually knowing where the centers are.
Now, finding where the bullets cuts the paper is not a 3 decimal place science, but it is to the guy who measured it.

Not nearly big enough! You should look at Verney-Carron's 700

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Not nearly big enough! You should look at Verney-Carron's 700

I already have!

Crazy isn't it

I nearly bought one of those myself this morning. But when I checked my lottery ticket I only won $14.20

Seriously very nice mate.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Not nearly big enough! You should look at Verney-Carron's 700

Hello ozhunter,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't think I can afford a 700 NE double rifle, but I'm actually advertizing that I'm wanting to buy a 700 NE single shot. (FB or bolt action). Do you know of any for sale?

UPDATE .... It was the comment above that led me to Aaron Little to build me a 700NE Double Rifle.

Here's the link to the details about that build.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...0101804/m/9561066812