Does any of the above have an advantage over the other

I have a 9.3x74 in a o/u and sxs. Nothing wrong with the o/u its killed a cow elk and 3 pigs, shoots real well and has a 12 ga barrel set.
since I got my sxs it has stayed in the safe.

JD

Why yes. If you buy the O/U all the SxS snobs will be looking down their noses at you! It's just not cricket to use the johnny-come-lately O/U.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Why yes. If you buy the O/U all the SxS snobs will be looking down their noses at you! It's just not cricket to use the johnny-come-lately O/U.

I don't know... i've owned an 9.3 O/U since the early 80's, and a few years ago i bought a 9.3 S&S... I like the S&S MUCH better, you don't have to open it as far to load or reload, and it's just feels better.

Both are accurate ect., but i hardly even pick the O/U up anymore...

DM

IMHO, I found in shotguns the O/U both feels and points better, but the SxS has the classic look and nostalgia all the way.

I believe it is 90% what you get used to. Person may tend to spend more trigger time with a gun they really like. That will become the best gun - for them.

I know this is a rifle forum, but all I know is double shotguns. When I hunt with my friends dogs, he credits the kill to the dog not the shooter. I would access the credit as 80% to the dog and 19% to the hunter and 1% to choice of gun&ammo. And 1% maybe too much.

What I think is: buy what you like and be happy. I feel the O/U is better, but if I buy a double rifle it will be as classic as I can get in a SxS. That is what "I" like.

O/U must open to a greater angle to reload the lower barrel hence,

a bit slower reloading process. For D/G that might make a difference.

I think the Austrian finely made O/U's are exquisitely elegant. And

since I'd NOT use it for D/G I'd like to have one with a smaller upper

barrel and larger lower barrel, maybe 8x75 over 375 H&H Belted Mag.

To reload a SXS might be in theory a little faster than a O/U because of the barrel angle. This assumes that both guns either have ejectors or extractors, however a ejector O/U will be faster than a SXS with extractors.
The quality of the gun is more important than the action type

quote:

If you buy the O/U all the SxS snobs will be looking down their noses at you!

And rightly so!

quote:

This assumes that both guns either have ejectors or extractors, however a ejector O/U will be faster than a SXS with extractors.

Not if you use the old hammer gun trick of flicking the gun upside down to let gravity drop the cases out off the extractors!

Here in Europe some say thae the O/U rifle is more versatile it as it "cross shoots" HIGH rather than left or right like a S/B/S.

Why?

Well apparently they claim you can use a lighter or heavier bullet (in one of the barrels) for long range shots or different small game you might encounter (such as foxes).

And often (if you do the trials on a target at that longer range) you can get a load will shoot to same sight setting as you normal medium game normal range load.

Or so they say. And no this is no April 1st joke.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:

quote:

This assumes that both guns either have ejectors or extractors, however a ejector O/U will be faster than a SXS with extractors.

Not if you use the old hammer gun trick of flicking the gun upside down to let gravity drop the cases out off the extractors!

Here in Europe some say thae the O/U rifle is more versatile it as it "cross shoots" HIGH rather than left or right like a S/B/S.
Why?

Well apparently they claim you can use a lighter or heavier bullet (in one of the barrels) for long range shots or different small game you might encounter (such as foxes).

And often (if you do the trials on a target at that longer range) you can get a load will shoot to same sight setting as you normal medium game normal range load.

Or so they say. And no this is no April 1st joke.

I can't get my SxS to "cross shoot". Should I send it back and have it re-regulated?

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:

quote:

This assumes that both guns either have ejectors or extractors, however a ejector O/U will be faster than a SXS with extractors.

Not if you use the old hammer gun trick of flicking the gun upside down to let gravity drop the cases out off the extractors!

Are you telling us that you can "flick the gun upside down to let gravity drop the cases out off the extractors" and reload faster with a SXS extractor gun than you can reload a O/U ejector gun? This I want to see!

Most of my guns are SXS, however this has a lot to do with tradition, and my transition from SXS shotguns to double rifles seemed very natural. If you like or use O/U's then you should look hard at O/U rifles. The one advantage O/U rifles have is that often the cost less than a similar quality SXS.
But regardless of what you do, buy a quality gun.

I own both types. Which ever one I am shooting is my favorite at that time!

I have often thought about this choice, I would of thought that if you also shoot shotguns then you would choose the configuration that you normally shoot so you have the same sight picture. I.e. sxs shotgun shooters for sxs double rifles, double rifles were styled on shotguns for their fast handling qualities. I happen to shoot a sxs shotgun, consequently I will (funds permitting) purchase a sxs double.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
I own both types. Which ever one I am shooting is my favorite at that time!

Well said!

quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by enfieldspares:


Are you telling us that you can "flick the gun upside down to let gravity drop the cases out off the extractors" and reload faster with a SXS extractor gun than you can reload a O/U ejector gun? This I want to see!

Yes, one of the methods I use is to either twist the gun and let the rounds fal out
with gravity.

I believe even with practice on both you can load SxS faster than O/U.

Just my HO.

quote:

I believe even with practice on both you can load SxS faster than O/U

One of the supporting methods - which is why Elmer Keith at the top of this forum gets it wrong. The picture has him holding the two cartridges just too far down along their bodies. As if they were darts. It is too slow all ways on for quick reloading.

You should hold them at the base just as you would when putting a cartridge into a revolver cylinder.

Then "twist" them in to the empty chambers.

That is you take the two cartridges from your pocket with you loading hand. Holding them ide by side them by almost the very base.

By sight or feel you locate the nose of the first cartridge against the ejector/extractor and twist the hand until the nose of the second cartridge can be seen or felt against its extractor.

Then just let them drop in, both at the same time, to the two chambers. This is quicker.

Experts on single gun days would even - at the start of a drive - hold two these two spare cartridges in their left hand, bases trapped between the fingers, as they shot their first pair of birds of the flush.

Gun down, break and eject the two fired cartridges, "turn in" the reloads, remount take the next two birds.

You can still see on some shoots the "old hands" indulging in vigorous pocket shaking (using gravity and the weight of the lead shot) to make the cartridges sit base up in their pockets or cartridge satchels today!

This is my opinion only! I too have both types, and find the S/S to be faster! Most of my shotguns are O/U, so the type are not unfamiliar to me, but there is a great difference between fast loading of a double shotgun, and a double rifle.

So here is a long winded opinion that offered and is worth exactly the price you paid for it!


………………………………………O/U vs S/S

The fact that both O/U, and S/S double rifles are fine choices for hunting of game makes them both desirable platforms. Which is best depends on what they are to be used to hunt. Both have drawbacks but for different reasons!

The O/U double rifles are, in most cases, chambered for smaller cartridges than the S/S double rifles. The O/U is, again, in most cases, fitted with single triggers, ejectors, automatic safeties and most are fitted with some sort of fixture for mounting a scope sight. There is a reason for the smaller chamberings, and all these features on an O/U double rifle. This because these rifles are generally only used for plains type game. They are lighter generally, and also usually chambered for smaller cartridges, better suited to large deer hunting.

The S/S double rifle may have the same features as the O/U double rifles in chamberings up to about 9.3X74R. The reasons are the same for those features in S/S as it is for the O/U doubles. These rifles are lighter, like the O/Us and have iron sights regulated to longer range, because of the game they are designed to hunt! That being things like Stag, and Moose, and African plains game, with only the 9.3X74R chambering being on the bottom edge of the dangerous game hunting, and as a back-up for a larger double rifle! Like most of the O/Us these are often fitted with scope sights as well.

When you look at the S/S double that is chambered for the .40 and over caliber NE cartridges, the features usually offered are different from that of the smaller chamberings. There is a reason for this as well. This is because these rifles are designed, first and foremost, for the hunting of dangerous game. Of most in these chamberings the S/S double rifles are fitted with two triggers, a manual safety, and the existence of extractors, or ejectors are about 50-50 in this type of rifle, and are a matter of choice.

While hunting any non-dangerous game one can do with just about any rifle that is large enough to kill the animal without its owner being in danger because of gadgetry. This is not so much the case when hunting animals that require larger chamberings, and which may require several shots to stop. In the case of a double rifle this may require one or more re-loadings of the rifle, and any feature that hinders the efficiency or time in re-loading the chambers is not a desirable feature. In this case the simpler the rifle is makes it as reliable as it can be made, and is very straightforward in its use. Nothing to forget at the most inopportune moment.

In the case of single triggers which are most often found on O/U double rifles, if the trigger malfunctions in any way, the rifle is out of service. Not a good situation, you think? If the trigger works perfectly, and is non-selective, then it hinders the use on the other barrel till the lower barrel is fired. In some the second lock (top barrel) is actually cocked by the recoil of the first barrel, and if you get a dud in that barrel the second will not fire. Not a good situation! If however, both locks are cocked by opening the action to reload, and the non-selective trigger is a mechanical then the second pull of the trigger will fire the other barrel. Still in both cases this takes away the option of carrying the rifle with a soft in one barrel, and a solid in the other and being able to choose which you fire first. This is a common habit when hunting Cape buffalo, where the first shot is most times a soft point followed by all solids there after, but not always. An Automatic safety is a feature that is often on O/U double rifles, and most small chambered S/S doubles made for hunting plains type (non-dangerous) game.

The O/U is, IMO, very slow to reload for shots three and four when time is not on the side of the shooter. This because of two reasons, No1 is it is almost impossible to load both barrels simultaneously in an O/U double rifle because of the chambers being one above the other, and two cartridges tend to want to go into the same chamber because gravity pulls the top bullet down till it contacts the bottom bullet. This causes the shooter to have to take his attention away from the advancing, or departing of the animal. The departing animal causes no immediate concern, which is usually the case with deer not put down with the first or second shot, but if he is advancing and he is dangerous……well you see that could mean something. No 2, is because the action must be opened much wider than a S/S, and if this rifle has no ejectors time is wasted plucking the cases out of the cambers as well as being hard to re-load. Add to this draw-back of an auto safety that you forget, and you may not be quick enough.

A S/S by side with or without ejectors I find to be faster on the re-loading of the chambers for shots three and four, and subsequent re-loadings. That IMO is a real plus on the side of the S/S double rifle. Most larger NE chambered double rifles are fitted with manual safeties, nothing to forget, double triggers, and with or without ejectors. The barrels can be very easily loaded simultaneously with two rounds between the fore finger and the middle finger resting both cartridges on top of the standing breech with the bullets into the open chambers, or between the thumb, and fore finger across the palm of the left hand, with the hands pinky side resting on the top of the barrels. Gravity doesn’t push the cartridges together as it does when the cartridges are held one above the other. All that must be done is start the bullets into the chambers, and release and let them slide home in the chambers!

The picture of Keiths hand is not wrong! Keith loaded from a belt slide that was just in front of his left hip, and the cartredges in his hand are exactly the some seperated distance they were when removed in one motion from that belt slide. His Pinky is resting on top of the barrel butts, and all that is left to do is release the two cartridges, and close the rifle. This would not be good with a shotgun, because of the very blunt ends to the shells, but with the tapered bullets it is perfect! Nobody I know re-loads from a pocket when hunting dangerous game!

.............................................. ........................

OK so I have three DR'S that are s/s,all traditional calibers,9.3x74,450/400 & 470,I have only one O/U, it's an ugly little job with 18" barrels,it's a CZ stopper,I just had some work done on it,stock worked on,and had it reamed out to the 458 lott,yes gentlemen the 458 lott ha ha,can you tell THAT I am looking forward to shooting this non traditional ugly duckling heeeehaaaaaa

After reading the thoughts on this subject I find that greatest difference between the two system is just plain snob appeal there is some people on this site that plain just dislike an thing they don't feel is a proper english double rifle, I have both systems a Heym 55b in 375 H&H and a Heym 88 in 375 H&H I don't find one is any better that the other. about the ease of reloading again I find very littel difference since I have been hunting for 50 years with a o/u shotgun I can reload faster with the o/u than the sxs because of lack of practice. I hunt birds 100 plus days a year and shooting sporting clays almost every weekend. I like any large caliber rifle double rifle and even the small caliber ones I will own up to owning a Browning o/u 30-06 (I know I should be ashamed of myself but I couldn't help my self at the time I had not been to this site and didn't know better) Just my thoughts on the subject.

quote:

at the start of a drive - hold two these two spare cartridges in their left hand, bases trapped between the fingers, as they shot their first pair of birds of the flush.

Gun down, break and eject the two fired cartridges, "turn in" the reloads, remount take the next two birds.

Enfieldspares, for God's sake man, this is driven game. Hand the fired gun to the gun bearer, retrieve a loaded gun and shoot again! What are you, some kind of German?!!!
Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

at the start of a drive - hold two these two spare cartridges in their left hand, bases trapped between the fingers, as they shot their first pair of birds of the flush.

Gun down, break and eject the two fired cartridges, "turn in" the reloads, remount take the next two birds.

Enfieldspares, for God's sake man, this is driven game. Hand the fired gun to the gun bearer, retrieve a loaded gun and shoot again! What are you, some kind of German?!!!
Peter

quote:

After reading the thoughts on this subject I find that greatest difference between the two system is just plain snob appeal

Can't agree in the case of shot guns as the ultimate, bird, double gun would be a Boss O/U.

But there is just "something" that marks a good British "classic" double rifle from a continental.

It is intangible but the same thing that marks out a good American "classic" self-loading pistol from a continental made one with perhaps the sole exception of the Browning High Power.

I can get excited about Colt 1911s all day. But Walther P38 and Luger pistols? Would not have one in the house!

The sad thing concerning O/U double rifles, (particularly where DG is concerned) is that they are regularly being dumped on by people who have little or no experience with the type.
This has gone on for a long time in shooting books, magazines, and on the internet.
A ten paragraph highly negative "opinion" in a post in this thread is a classic example, where the writer appears to have no experience with large cal O/U DR's, and a poor understanding of the operation of single trigger systems on DR's.

Not all O/U double rifles are the dogs that they are so often portrayed as being.

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:
The sad thing concerning O/U double rifles, (particularly where DG is concerned) is that they are regularly being dumped on by people who have little or no experience with the type.
This has gone on for a long time in shooting books, magazines, and on the internet.
A ten paragraph highly negative "opinion" in a post in this thread is a classic example, where the writer appears to have no experience with large cal O/U DR's, and a poor understanding of the operation of single trigger systems on DR's.

Not all O/U double rifles are the dogs that they are so often portrayed as being.

No, not all, but a lot of them are and most people would come into
contact with these one's.

More modern one's, maybe a bit better.

quote:

but a lot of them are and most people would come into
contact with these one's.

Which ones would they be?

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:

Which ones would they be?

Well lets start with the old Brno's for a start.

Big, heavy clunky things.



Which one's were you talking aout being good ?

I find my Heym 55b built during the early 60's is as good as anything being built now. the workmanship is outstanding the fit and finish is way above average, I understand the o/u double rifles all get lumped together there a great many German and other high grade guns that are as good as it gets. They get very little good press but they have worked well all over the world by Continental and Germany hunters and they have the money to buy anything they want. My German friend spends more money on hunting than anyone I know and he uses one of those terrible o/u double rifles that cost more than an average high end car and has no complaints, most of the problem listed for an o/u double rifle is here say and old hunting lore, with practice I don't feel that you gain much of anything with a s/s. That being said under stress no one knows how they are going to do till they have been there and done that, ever one talks about how fast they can reload there s/s double rifle but you put 98 per cent of the shooters under the stress and they will fail to do well and this based on forty years of firearms training both at the Local and State and federal levels I have had trained Officers that under live fire missed a man 7 feet away 8 or nine times, so I find it hard to believe that most heavy double rifle shooters can train them to the level that under stress they are going to fire two shots off and reload two more and hit the dangerous target, yes there are people who can do that but you would have to spend years hunting and shooting to reach that level, and most of the shooters have to work for a living and can on train only on week ends and the cost of the ammunition would be staggering.

quote:

Originally posted by rnb:
I find my Heym 55b built during the early 60's is as good as anything being built now. the workmanship is outstanding the fit and finish is way above average, I understand the o/u double rifles all get lumped together there a great many German and other high grade guns that are as good as it gets. They get very little good press but they have worked well all over the world by Continental and Germany hunters and they have the money to buy anything they want. My German friend spends more money on hunting than anyone I know and he uses one of those terrible o/u double rifles that cost more than an average high end car and has no complaints, most of the problem listed for an o/u double rifle is here say and old hunting lore, with practice I don't feel that you gain much of anything with a s/s. That being said under stress no one knows how they are going to do till they have been there and done that, ever one talks about how fast they can reload there s/s double rifle but you put 98 per cent of the shooters under the stress and they will fail to do well and this based on forty years of firearms training both at the Local and State and federal levels I have had trained Officers that under live fire missed a man 7 feet away 8 or nine times, so I find it hard to believe that most heavy double rifle shooters can train them to the level that under stress they are going to fire two shots off and reload two more and hit the dangerous target, yes there are people who can do that but you would have to spend years hunting and shooting to reach that level, and most of the shooters have to work for a living and can on train only on week ends and the cost of the ammunition would be staggering.

I don't disagree with what you say being ex mil but I have also been there
and done that with a SxS DR.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:

Which ones would they be?

Well lets start with the old Brno's for a start.

Big, heavy clunky things.



Which one's were you talking aout being good ?

If the Brnos are big heavy clunky things, this is not the fault of the O/U design. It is a fault of the Brno design.
SxS Dr's have been built which could also be described as big heavy and clunky. Some of the 450-400's for example.

If you want my opinion on a nice slim well balanced O/U DR, you could start with the Beretta Diamond, Gold, or Silver Sable.
Browning also made nice trim O/U Dr's.
Plenty of European makers have built many nicely balanced O/U DR's over many years.
Zoli is another one currently available, and Chapuis to.
There are plenty out there.

quote:

Reply

Agree, the Beretta Silver and gold Sables are very sveldt - if that is the right word.

Yes, Zoli, Chapuis - agree on both.

Re Brno's, design or otherwise, they are still O/U's

I still prefer a SxS in Zoli or Chapuis
as opposed to an O/U.

For myself, I want the rifle which fits, handles, and works the best for me in the hunting fields. I don't mind if it's SxS or O/U.
I do shoot both types regularly.

Ferlach O/U's are wonderful.