I have a box of the above mentioned bullets laying around,would they be safe to shoot in my Cz O/U 458 Lott? thanks.

I'm not sure of "encapsulated" but the Hornady 500 grain solid .458's that I shot worked fine out of my double rifle. A Rigby hammer double.

Dutch

Dutch,
thanks for the info,would you have the part # listed on the box?

It should be a lead core bullet. Put a magnet next to one and see if it is a DGS. I see no problem with either, as long as they are lead core.

I have shot the old-style Hornady softs, #4506, and the solids, #4507, in my .450#2 Nitro Express double rifle for years. Absolutely no problems and they kill buffalo DEAD.

They have a brass cup, instead of steel. I doubt that they could be worse than steel jacketed solids.

There was a lot of talk about them breaking up. I do not know of the voracity of those reports.

The talk was of the lead core separating or being squeezed out the back. I did have a bit of the lead pushed out the back, on bullets recovered from game, but so do steel jacketed bullets. It is impossible for any other result.

I used the 500 gr 458 and the 400 gr 416 bullets for hunting until better stuff came along. Still use the leftovers for plinking.

You'll have to decide for yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I did have a bit of the lead pushed out the back, on bullets recovered from game, but so do steel jacketed bullets. It is impossible for any other result.

Exactly. If you have a hole in the base of the bullet, the lead will be slightly squeezed out on impact.

.

Not to spur on a dead horse or get off topic too far, but I'll get on a tangent for a second.

When a bullet gets engraved by the rifling something has to give. The barrel has to expand and/or the bullet must constrict and/or the bullet gets shaved by the rifling.

In most cases of cup/core bullets the material that gets pushed away by the rifling (engraved) gets pushed into the bullet interior and then pushes out some of the lead core out the back.

That was the fundamental problem with the old Speer solid brass bullets. There was no place for the brass to go and had to bulge barrels. And old doubles got split barrels from the bulging of the barrel.

Here are a few photos of encapsulated Hornady, Barnes solid and what they looked like after penetrating hard sand bank.
You will see that although some of the cores of the Hornady bullets pressed forward only a few actually had the core penetrate beyond the jacket.

I am sure they are safe but I only trusted the Barnes for standing in front of a Buff or Elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Will:
I did have a bit of the lead pushed out the back, on bullets recovered from game, but so do steel jacketed bullets. It is impossible for any other result.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Not to spur on a dead horse or get off topic too far, but I'll get on a tangent for a second.

When a bullet gets engraved by the rifling something has to give. The barrel has to expand and/or the bullet must constrict and/or the bullet gets shaved by the rifling.

In most cases of cup/core bullets the material that gets pushed away by the rifling (engraved) gets pushed into the bullet interior and then pushes out some of the lead core out the back.

That was the fundamental problem with the old Speer solid brass bullets. There was no place for the brass to go and had to bulge barrels. And old doubles got split barrels from the bulging of the barrel.

That is the reason the hole is left in the traditional jacketed solids so the soft lead core can swage out to allow the engraving of the rifling! This is where the bullet makers made their mistake with the first family of mono-metal solids like the MONOLITHIC, and Barnes SUPER SOLID, and consequently causing some problems with double rifles, especially the older ones with over stressed rifling. Even the old double rifles worked fine for years with the older steel jacketed lead core solids without damage to the barrels!

To the disbelievers OSR is a fact though rare and finally the bullet makers like North Fork, and GS Custom have designs that solve this problem. Others have attempted to fix their mono-metal bullets because of this, and some are doing an acceptable job and other not so much.

IOM, the bullet that started this thread will do fine in the 458 double rifle, but because of some problems with those bullets failing on live targets I’d use them for pigs and get something better for Buffalo and elephant!

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martinez:
Here are a few photos of encapsulated Hornady, Barnes solid

The picture is a good one showing the three types! The FMJ is fine in a double rifle, so is the ENCAPSULATED, though it is failure prone, but the Barnes SUPER SOLID pictured here is not suitable for double rifle use IMO!

Gentlemen,
I thank you all for your help,my primary bullet for this rifle will be Swift A-frames,but I will load the hornady's and see how they shoot.

Bill:
I have 5 boxes of 50 still left and will be happy to get the #'s off of the boxes for you. Now that I have been educated as to encapsulated will look as well. Bought them for $25.00 a box at Grafs when they had them on the close-out shelf in St. Charles.


Dutch