I had been shooting Woodleighs in my .470. The Woodleighs are .474 in diameter and they worked GREAT! However, just for fun I wanted to try some Hawks. I got some and they are .475 in diameter. However, they should work okay because they are really, really soft. You can actually squeeze one between your fingers.

I loaded up about eight rounds with the Hawks and even though I am sure they are seated deep enough I am having some difficulty closing the rifle. I have to point the barrels straight down and close the rifle with the barrels pointed toward the ground. I am thinking that the Hawks are so soft that the act of simply seating the bullets is causing them to distort a bit. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Dave:

As with any rifle, you should have enough clearance in the chamber for the neck to expand to release the bullet. It's possible that the slightly larger bullet diameter is creating a neck OD on the loaded round that's tight in the the neck of the chamber.

To check for correct fit of the cartridge in a double rifle, dismount the barrels and push the extractors in until they're fully seated. Then, holding the barrels vertical, muzzle down, drop a cartridge in. It should seat all the way with gravity alone. If it needs help with your thumb, it's too tight somewhere.

On the Hawks, start low, shoot over a chrono. Watch for erratic speeds. It's a dead soft bullet, and really does obturate to completely seal the bore. It's quite possible for a normal load for a Woodleigh to be too hot for the same weight Hawk - in some rifles. The Hawk was just too erratic in my larger double for me to get comfy with, but I use it a lot in my medium bore.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Dave,
I would not shoot your loads unless they drop into the chamber and the action will close with no additional effort. You can damage your rifle if the action is not fully closed and you fire the rounds.

I too had problems with Hawk bullets in 470. I quickly abandoned them.

Mark:

I pulled off the barrels, pushed down the extractor, and dropped the eight rounds that I had loaded one-by-one. I had one round that did not drop all the way in both barrel. The chamber on the left barrel must be just a bit tighter than the right. The remaining seven rounds did drop all the way in the right barrel. I am going to discard the one round that did not drop all the way in either barrel as I don't have a bullet puller big enough to work with a .470. I can shoot the other seven rounds in the right barrel.

Now, what do I need to adjust? Turn down the sizing die a bit or trim the cases back a bit more to make them work better next time?

Just make a temp.puller with 2-1' pieces of 1X4.
drill a hole that will firmly hold the shell, use the other piece to cover the base and hammer away the regular way.

Dave:

There are several things that need to be checked if a shell won't drop all the way in.

First is case length. Make sure the case is kept trimmed to the correct length, and never load a case that measures over max. An overlength case can cause difficulty chambering and, much more important, can raise pressures to dangerous levels. Case length should be checked, and any needed trimming done, AFTER sizing, not before.

The second is OAL. If the bullet is seated out too far, it may be contacting the rifling before seating fully. Some ogive shapes require deeper seating, even though the bullet may be of the same weight.

Third is neck diameter of the loaded round. There are a couple of things to check here. If the necks are too thick (this could be aggravated by the .001" oversize bullet in this case), the shell may bind as the cartridge neck attempts to enter the chamber neck. If this is the case, you'll have to thin the case necks, either by inside reaming or outside turning.

The same thing can be caused by crimp. If a crimp is used, especially an aggressive one, it's common for the neck just below the turn in of the crimp to be very slightly bulged, again creating excessive OD. In a double without particularly generous chambers, this can also prevent a cartridge from chambering. This is one of the good reasons not to crimp double rifle ammunition. Magazine rifles need it to keep the bullets from being battered deeper into the case on the front of the magazine box during recoil, and bolts have far greater camming powder to fully seat a cartridge with. Doubles don't, nor is there any need to crimp to prevent bullet movement under recoil. All that's needed is neck tension, which is accomplished by adjusting the size of the expander plug.

While not too familiar with teh 470, it sounds as though either the outside diameter of the cartridge is too larges as stated, or the shoulder ofthe case has not been bumped back far enough during resizing.

I doubt Hornady makes a headspace/OAL insert for the 470, but you could cast with cerrosafe and measure a fired case agasint the casting....

One other thought- is the bullet seated deeply enough to not be engraving into the rifling-(does the 470 chamber have a generous leade/throat and or freebore?)

probably worth less than $.02, but anyway

Darn keyboard-I can never get it to spell correctly. Sorry.