Just joined the site over the weekend. Got my first double - a Sabatti in 450/400 with ejectors. Hoping it turns out better than some of the discussions I've read herein. Waiting to shoot it this weekend if the weather is nice. Too many Capstick, Taylor, and Bell books since I was a kid. Hoping it lives up to my dreams and there are actually Sabatti owners who love their doubles. Took Cabela's 4 months since I inquired about it and now I'm just waiting to have my ammo delivered.

Welcome to Accurate Reloading.

I hope that you have years of great fun, excitement and success with your new double.

I have one in the same caliber and it is a true pleasure to shoot. While it is out for repairs presently, I look forward to having it back, hopefully in pristine and proper condition.

Good luck with your new DR!

Welcome !!

I have one and I am very happy with it. Thanks God it doesn't hAs the problems some others experiencied with their Sabatti's.

Good luck
L

Welcome to the DR fold and hope you have a lot of years of fun with it - and to see some good targets on the DR forum here !!!

What are you planning on hunting with it ?

.

RE- What are you planning on hunting with it ?

Hope to get back to Africa some day for Cape buffalo. Been once for plains game and loved it. I also have a '64 Browning Safari in 458 win mag with a trijicon scope on. Came across that at an auction and couldn't pass it up. Thought it would be perfect for Africa (when I thought a double was out of my reach). Could see using my DR for just about anything though. Hunted hogs in Texas before and it would be great for that too!

Hunting pigs with a DR is great fun.

Can get fast and furious with a mob so it teaches you to shoot running animals and reload quickly.

And generally any pig hit with a 375 and up tends to stay down.

Have fun.

Congradulations on your new rifle & welcome to
the forum. I have a 450 NE and have shot well over 300 rounds through it. It does not have any problems and groups as well as almost any others I know of from comparing posted targets. I will take it accross the pond soon to shoot elephant. I am totally confident with it.

Curious for those out there reloading their Sabattis'...did you start with loads comparable to the Hornady DGX loads they were "regulated" with, or start fresh and work the load up? I've only been reloading about 4 months and can see me doing my 450/400 as well. Want opinions on where to start though.

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:
Curious for those out there reloading their Sabattis'...did you start with loads comparable to the Hornady DGX loads they were "regulated" with, or start fresh and work the load up? I've only been reloading about 4 months and can see me doing my 450/400 as well. Want opinions on where to start though.

Where to start ?

10% less, as with all reloading, especially with a new rifle and components of any sort.

Too many variables that could cause problems if you start at the known load
of a cartridge. ie Tight / Loose chamber, tight bore, tight neck etc.

.

I suggest that you get a copy of "Shooting the British Double Rifle" By G Wright. It'll let you understand what's going on with a DR as well as good loads.

I to have a Sabatti in 450NE. I truly love to shoot it. Will shoot it more if I can ever figure out this reloading. My first shot at reloading and I stuck a hull in the sizer so it was off to Hornady.

I can send you the reloading data that was sent to me when I purchased my Sabatti.

Mr Kittle,
Get yourself a stuck case remover kit.
It's fast and easy.
Or you just drill out the primer hole with a #7 or a 13/64 bit. Tap it with a 1/4" NC. Then with a stack of washers and a 1/4" bolt pull the stuck case out.

Shot the Sabatti tonight. Pleased with the grouping - about 2" apart at 50 yards and they aren't crossing. Only problem is that they are all about 6" above aiming point. I've buried the front sight as snug as I could into the rear v. Suggestions? I'm using factory DGX loads that they were regulated with. Spacing is right - just so darn high. File the back sight or what?

A myriad of things to do BEFORE you take to the sight with a file.

Will try to come back later.

My memory fails me, does the front sight on the Sabatti guns fit into a North American style transverse dovetail or into a fore-and-aft dovetail like many of Recknagel's sights?

Fore and aft; but there is no retaining plunger. And it fits in from the front so there is something else holding them in. Solder maybe.

Just use the front sight as it it was a german reticle N 1 or even like a shotgun...just "touch" the bottom of whatever you want to hit with the front sight.

L

I've found that for my 2- 450's a good load that is very close to the Hornady factory load is 95 grns of IMR 4831 and a 480-500 grn bullet. The 350's also like this.

500N - love to hear suggestions around what can be done without filing the sight. I contacted Cabela's firearm's manager this afternoon and told him it needs re-regulated. They are willing to take it back but are unable to give me a time estimate. Hate having a new double and having to send it back already.

hunteratheart

As much as I have been critical of Sabatti DR's, I think you maybe jumping the gun a bit in thinking of sending it back straight away. That is just my HO, others may disagree (I would be interested to know other people's thoughts on this).


Well, the gun is regulated in that they are 2" apart (I would prefer them slightly closer together) but 6" high.

Firstly, the reason I said what I posted was once you file metal away, you can't put it back, hence why it is the last thing to do. I would change sights before filing an existing sight but that is me.

Anyway, other things (without having re read every post)
1. Get someone else who knows how to shoot DR's to shoot the same gun with the same loads you just used to see where they print them.

2. I would try some different REloads (powder, primers, bullets) - all can change regulation by themselves so I would suggest only change one component at a time otherwise you won't know which one is causing the change.

3. I would try different bullet seating depths (this is a long shot and
only seems to affect some DR's)

4. I would look at what other FRONT and REAR sights are available to use / replace the exiting one's BEFORE taking a file to the exiting sights.

That's just for starters, I am sure some of the other more knowledgeable people on AR will add others and / or make corrections to my list above.


The above is based on my experience with my and other people's DR's
and that a couple of people who have said to me a DR doesn't shoot when
in fact it did, it just needed some time and effort put into the loads
/ method of shooting (Two I can think of were both 450/400's).


.

Brownells carry an assortment of Recknagel front sights in various heights, and with the European-style fore-and-aft dovetail. If the front sight can be tapped forward and out of its dovetail, with a brass or nylon drift, then replacing it with a higher sight would be a simple matter.

All are good points. What I put weight on was the fact that everything else I can do is put on me at my expense. I can buy the dies and components to reload but that may not solve it and then I am out that money and time. Changing sights costs money and may not really remedy the situation - although it may make it better no doubt. If I have Cabelas do it, it costs me nothing and the oweness is put on them. Shouldn't we get what we pay for and if not, make sure it is put right? I will explore the idea of different sights before taking it back though. I'll try a local gunsmith and see what he has to say about the feasibility of getting a replacement sight. That may be a less time consuming alternative to having Cabelas send it off for regulation. I eventually planned on reloading but wasn't planning on it right off the bat. As far as that goes, the only way a reload would help, would be to lower the charge and reduce the velocity, correct? Six inches at 50 yards is quite a bit to overcome without changing sights. Anyhow, I'll let you know what the gunsmith says when I get a chance. Thanks for the insight.

hunterheart

Good points.

Re "Shouldn't we get what we pay for", one myself and others have been arguing about since they came on the market.

.

What is your sight picture? Are you holding 6 o'clock of the bull or placing the bead to cover the bull?

I am not a Double expert but this is an issue & bead covering bull is the recommended DR shooting method according to Graham Wright's book. if you are holding 6 o'clock, then the change would solve your problem.

Just my $0.02 worth!

I echo 500N and other's sentiments - shooting a DR is nothing like shooting a single barrel anything. The dynmics of hold, grip, sight picture and rest are entirely different.

I've spoken with Retreever, DoubleDon, SRose, Cal Pappas among others who have vast DR experience and have changed my 5 decades old shooting style - and have far better results for it.

From your reading here, you probably already know:
-Never rest the forearm or barrel on anything except your hand;
-Grip the forearm tightly and wrap your fingers around the tops of the barrels;
-If you use a rest under your weak hand,it mustn't be a "V-shape" - the DR must be able to swing freely in recoil and the "V" will impede that;
-You must not use a pad under the butt of the DR (on a sitting bench if that is what you are shooting from). The only things touching the stock should be your shoulder and your strong hand wrapped tightly around the wrist.
-In fact, don't sit and use a bench for the same reasons

I have little more experience than you but doing these simple things made a great deal of difference for me.

Good luck

I shot 10 times using a Caldwell lead sled and 10 times off hand. With each method, I bury the front bead into the rear v so that the bottom of the front bead touches the sides of the v and is centered. The front bead is then placed just under my "bulls eye". With the sled or off hand, I relatively get the same results for height of impact. I have sticks but did not have them with me at the range last time. Would expect the same results.

hunter

Just out of interest, does it feel comfortable when you shoot or do you have to move to get that sight picture ?

Can't add any more at this stage.

.

Try shooting offhand. Nothing touches the rifle but you! If you're going to use a rest keep your hand under the rifle and sit upright.. Never use the lead sled.

If all else fails changing the front blade is no big deal and I'd rather get a fresh one and install it out of pocket rather thast return it to EAA/ Italy.

500N - all is comfortable and the gun quickly and easily mounts on my shoulder with the sight picture being almost natural. That's part of why I bought it - it just comes up smoothly and feels good. I don't feel as though I have to "work" at it.
Mike - Have tried off hand. Just as many shots as using the lead sled. I prefer to use most guns when I first get them with the lead sled because unlike a person, the sled is fairly rigid and consistent. Tells capablities of gun without the person\habits involved.

Don't forget your bead necklace, pot, and a ouija board.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
I've found that for my 2- 450's a good load that is very close to the Hornady factory load is 95 grns of IMR 4831 and a 480-500 grn bullet. The 350's also like this.

In a 450-400?

NOPE!!!
I thought he said 450.. He's got a 450/400.

DO NOT TRY TO Stuff 95 grns in a 450/400!!!

That's for the 450 Nitro 3 1/4"

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:
500N - all is comfortable and the gun quickly and easily mounts on my shoulder with the sight picture being almost natural. That's part of why I bought it - it just comes up smoothly and feels good. I don't feel as though I have to "work" at it.
Mike - Have tried off hand. Just as many shots as using the lead sled. I prefer to use most guns when I first get them with the lead sled because unlike a person, the sled is fairly rigid and consistent. Tells capablities of gun without the person\habits involved.

Hunterheart
I don't believe in Lead sleds. "fairly rigid" is not my idea of free recoiling.

You can achieve the same thing with a home made standing rest, even one made of milk crates and a solid pillow. I find as long as I can rest my forearm, and if possible give me something solid to push my thigh against you can easily achieve a stable shooting platform.

If you are not stable, rest and try again.

I also don't like lead sleds because the odd stock has been stuffed because of them.

.

If your bead is sitting at the bottom of the bull, that is a 6 o'clock hold. If you cover the bull with the bead, you should be spot on. You might want to check with the gun maker to find out what sight picture they use for regulated targets.

Just picked my DR up from the gunsmith tonight after work. He was able to get another express sight, mill it down, and he states it's now shooting about 1" low at 50 yards for him. He also replaced the POS recoil pad it came with. Can't wait to see what it does for me this weekend. Wasn't cheaper than sending it back for regulation - but I got it back after only a week and I should be ready to roll now. Thanks for the suggestions and I'll keep you posted.

Sabatti shoots like a dream after the gunsmith work. She's shooting about 1" low at 50 and about 3" low at 100. Groups are fairly tight and I'm pleased. Thanks to everyone who suggested I do the sight replacement instead of filing down my original.

Good to hear.