Guys, I am curious, how many of you have .375 doubles and for those that do, which one do you have, the flanged version or the belted case? Ganyana already mentioned he has a Krieghoff flanged .375.

I have a Holland flanged magnum double.

I have a Heym 55b sidelock 375 H&H belted and have great luck with it.

I have a krieghoff belted 375 H&H

quote:

Originally posted by gatsby:
I have a Holland flanged magnum double.

Gatsby, where do you get your brass?

Rigby Sidelock (RBRTB) in 375 Fl Magnum

Something (can't remember the maker) (Boxlock) in 375 Fl Magnum

Merkel in 375H&H

Purdey 375 belted, Westley 375 flanged, H&H 375 flanged.

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:
Purdey 375 belted, Westley 375 flanged, H&H 375 flanged.

I need to become a "sinner"!

465H&H

Abiatico Y Salvinelli (Farmars) sidelock in 375 H&H Belted Magnum.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by gatsby:
I have a Holland flanged magnum double.

Gatsby, where do you get your brass?

I got a hundred or more loaded rounds with the gun, all Holland loadings. Several hundred new cases became available thru one of the auction houses a few years back and I have some of those, I don't remember how many. Do you need some?

gatsby:

I don't have a .375 double. My "light" double is a .500/.416. Ganyana posted that he had a flanged .375 and that got me to wondering who had one and how many flanged guns were out there. Some say the belted cartridge should not be used in a double but everyone seems to make a double in .375 H&H and the belted brass is sure easier to come by.

Dave,
After loading for bore guns and paradoxes which needed custom made brass, molds, nonexistant bullets, specialty tools and powders for load developement, I never considered finding flanged 375 brass as difficult.

My friend's Victor Sarasquetta in .375 flanged (I am not aware of any .375 Belted double in the neighbourhood):

I had a Westley Richards 375 flanged magnum a few years ago, and have a bad knee from kicking my own butt for selling it! I have some 375FL Mag brass and dies but hold on to it thinking I might find another rifle I can afford someday!

quote:

have a bad knee from kicking my own butt for selling it

Hilarious!
Peter.

Buffalo Arms has some Bertram cases. Don't know if they are good or not though.....

Mac

Just about every DR maker out there offers their rifles in the 375 belted H&H. If there were any "bugs" to be worked out with a rimless 375 in a DR, I'm sure they've been taken care of by now.

Dave - I have seen and handled a few double rifles built for the .458 Win. They worked, but the extractor/ejector system for them did not inspire confidence that they were a long term solution- Small and with a powerful spring set up - you also couldn't throw the rounds into the guns and slam them shut

To be fair, I have never seen one of the newer/better .375 belted doubles like from Heym or Krieghoff, and don't know how they have solved the issue. Of course, the Krieghoff just extracts, so uou could just as easily have the extractor in front of the belt rather than in the groove of the rim.

.375FL brass- there are three makes that I have tried. Krieghoff (which used to be WR but they have moved up to someone alot better), Bertram (which is used by Kynock - and I don't like) and Norma. At present Norma brass is only generally available as loaded ammo at a horrible price, but they have anounced that they will begin selling brass this year. These will be plain brass cases- if you want nickeled ones you will have to buy some factory ammo!

Personally I like to keep my solids in Nickeled cases and softs in brass - but being a world class scrounger....I load woodleigh solids and Swift A frames

Geoff Macdonald at woodleigh will send you .374" solids with the cannelure in the right place for .375 FL

My only real issue with mine is that I have gone through about 1000 rounds since I got it last year and the practice alone is threatening to take food from my kids mouths (but darn, is it fun to shoot).

ya hard to beat that warm feeling spitting ~300gr through .366 Flanged at 1/4 of the price...

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
ya hard to beat that warm feeling spitting ~300gr through .366 Flanged at 1/4 of the price...

But it is a good thing these guys with all this money keep up the demand for the obscure and over-rated cartridges to keep them from a complete, final, and lonesome death.

Nostalgia rules, and be glad for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
you also couldn't throw the rounds into the guns and slam them shut

Ganyana, all,

There is a trick that allows one to just drop in the rounds and close the gun with 458wm double rifles, like any other rifles in flanged cartridges. At least in my rifle.

The trick is using a buffer to round off the forward shoulder of the belt. Care must be execised since the cartridge head spaces on the belt, but the shoulder is easily rounded while leaving more than adequate belt.

Also, to make this trick work 100% reliably, all brass to be used hunting DG needs to be full length sized. It is remarkable how much brass is out of round from the factory.

After loading, to make sure each and every round will drop into the chamber past the paw that engages the groove, I drop each round into the right chamber, remove, twist 90* and repeat through 360* and then do the same with the left chamber. Any rounds that don't drop right into the chambers are culled and set aside for shooting practice.

I haven't tried this with my 375H&H double, and I'm not sure it would work, since I think the 450 or 500gr bullet of the 458wm helps drop the rounds into the chambers.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
ya hard to beat that warm feeling spitting ~300gr through .366 Flanged at 1/4 of the price...

But it is a good thing these guys with all this money keep up the demand for the obscure and over-rated cartridges to keep them from a complete, final, and lonesome death.

Nostalgia rules, and be glad for it.

Will, all kidding aside, do you really believe that there is a marked difference in power between the flanged .375 and the 9.3X74R. Kynoch .375 flanged ammo is loaded with a 300 grain bullet at 2425 fps but that is out of a 28 inch barrel so it is probably really only running at about 2400 fps out of the 24 inch barrel of most modern guns and those are the ballistics that gave the flanged .375 it vaunted reputation. Supposedly, Norma 9.3X74R ammunition runs 2360 fps with a 286 grain bullet. With the quality of modern bullets, do you think the flanged .375 is markedly better than the 9.3?

Doesn't the .375 flanged have the slight advantage of being legal for dangerous game in places where the 9.3 technically isn't? Or is that generally irrelevant in real world application?

Only fly on .375 Fl ammo is brass - with all the .375 bullets available it does make a lot of sence...then there is a rifle cost difference between .366 and .375...bugger!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
ya hard to beat that warm feeling spitting ~300gr through .366 Flanged at 1/4 of the price...

But it is a good thing these guys with all this money keep up the demand for the obscure and over-rated cartridges to keep them from a complete, final, and lonesome death.

Nostalgia rules, and be glad for it.

Will, all kidding aside, do you really believe that there is a marked difference in power between the flanged .375 and the 9.3X74R. Kynoch .375 flanged ammo is loaded with a 300 grain bullet at 2425 fps but that is out of a 28 inch barrel so it is probably really only running at about 2400 fps out of the 24 inch barrel of most modern guns and those are the ballistics that gave the flanged .375 it vaunted reputation. Supposedly, Norma 9.3X74R ammunition runs 2360 fps with a 286 grain bullet. With the quality of modern bullets, do you think the flanged .375 is markedly better than the 9.3?

If one assumes nominal (old Kynoch) velocities fpr the 375's, all with 300 gr. bullets, and all with 24" barrels, and a muzzle velocity of 2370 fps for the 9.3's, 2400 fps for the H&H, 2325 fps for the Flanged, here are the bullet muzzle energies, Taylor's KO vales, and Penetration Indices:

Cartridge Energy K.O. PI
9.3x74R(9.3x62) 3741 37 113
375 Flanged 3601 37 99
375 H&H 3837 39 106

Take your pick, eh?

Of course handloads can change these results.

Save your pennies, the next book with all this stuff in it is coming this summer.

Do I really think there is a difference between the 9,3x74 and my .375 FL??? Not enough to spend alot of money on. I hunt in Zim where the 9,3 is legal.

Over a chronograph at harare altitudes I gain an extra 14grns in bullet weight going 65fps faster and 8 thou greater diamiter.

Sadly nobody offers 9,3x74R loads really set up for dangerous game - Norma is talking about offering the 286grn Swift but I haven't seen any yet, so it is a handloading proposition...but then, I shoot very little factory ammo anyway All the factory ammo available for the .375 FL that I have seen (whether from Germany, England or Sweden) uses 300grn woodleigh softs and solids.

It is a minor theoretical advantage that any factory ammo for the .375 FL is intended for big game where as most 9,3x74 is intended for wild boar. It is also legal in those few unenlightened places where the 9,3 isn't deemed to be the minimum caliber

And lastly, I already own a 9,3 (x62) and trying to obtain a licence for another 9,3 (abet x74) would have got the girls in firearms registry's tits into a collective tangle.

My 286gr bullets go @2225fps out of my 9,3x74R double rifle.

It has worked great on some deer, big pigs, and a couple of big black bear.

Killed a kudu at a little over 300 yards, killed several zebra and other plains game with no problems.

On the really BIG stuff...
2 Woodleigh Solids took down a giraffe.

One Woodleigh Soft into the chest of a cape buff in the SAVE, he was down and dead in less than 40 yards...

Again in the SAVE, I side brained a cow elephant at 5 yards. The Woodleigh Solid went complently through the head.

IMHO anything that I could do with a 375 H&H I could [and have] done with a 9,3x74R.

Originally posted by Ganyana

quote:

I hunt in Zim where the 9,3 is legal.

Hmmm - did'nt know that. What are the chances my .338 double would be legal for buff in Zim. It's been 15 years since I was last there and I think it's time I get back.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Originally posted by Ganyana

quote:

I hunt in Zim where the 9,3 is legal.

Hmmm - did'nt know that. What are the chances my .338 double would be legal for buff in Zim. It's been 15 years since I was last there and I think it's time I get back.

No luck, the 9.3 is the minimum diameter bullet for buff (and ele.)

I am pretty sure that your rifle would be legal for lion and am sure it is legal for leopard.

JPK

JPK

I have a Merkel 375 H&H rimless belted magnum.

Searcy 375 Flanged.....brass from Jamison.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Mine is a single shot, Holland/Woodward patent that I am rebarreling to .375 FL. It just seemed right. I hope to take an Asiatic Water Buffalo with it in the summer of 2011.