Having hunted with bolt guns all my life I decided to gift myself with a double rifle to take for another elephant hunt when I turn 65 in a couple of years.

Now, caliber I am looking at is either 470 NE or 500 NE. I am left handed so the action has to accommodate that as well, additionally if the front trigger is offset a bit to the right it will need to swap with the back trigger or moved to the left.

Looking at their web site I did notice Heym does make a left handed stock, but not sure about the action. As far as the budget goes my goal is to keep it under 6 figures.

I was also looking at Wesley Richards and noticed that they have 3 different actions; fixed lock, sidelock and droplock (pushes my budget a tad). I am not familiar with different types of actions, anyone care to elaborate?

Thanks in advance.

You mean under $100K?
For that price you can get most anything you want except a new H&H.

With your resources? I would pick up a modestly priced 470 or whatever caliber you want,shoot it & learn what you really want in a DR before you spend your mula

So a left handed Heym then?

I saw this, but don't know whether that is a good price.

https://www.gunsinternational....cfm?gun_id=101034329

The other thing is I would like to know about the different type of actions, not going to learn from shooting one type of action.

OK,I will try to explain a little more,my first DR was a Chapuis in 9.3x74,next was a Merkel in 470,now I have the following,375 H&H CZ O/U,450-400 Heym,500-416 Krieghoff,458 Lott CZ O/U,& 470 Heym,my choice was driven more by the calibers that I wanted than action style etc,price was off course a factor as well,all these guns shoot acceptable,again I would say that start with a caliber that you want & shoot,the different types of actions command a different price because of production cost & demand but not one action outshoots another for practical purposes.
The Heym in the link I believe is in like new condition,I was there when it was test fired at my range,I don't think the gun has ever been hunted,it is also in the classifieds here on AR,the asking price is not bad,I am sure a resonable offer would be considered,I paid about $18,000.00 for my 450-400 with case coloring.

https://jjperodeau.com/store/?model_number=B4379

Left hand stock, with the guy that can do what is possible.

If you can't visit a friend who has a few DRs and shoot some, I recommend a training rifle first; you have plenty of $ for that.
Yes, first get a Chapuis in 9.3. Call Ken Buch; Shoot it a lot. Then go to a 450-400; that is actually the best DR caliber for most people. Sure a 470 or 500 sounds sexy but you should shoot one first. Of course, you can jump directly to a 500 if you want; they kick about like two 12 gauges at once. I don't know how recoil tolerant you are.
I actually prefer the 450 NE, due to bullet selection. But other DR owners do not care about that and only use factory ammo.
Come on over and we can shoot several, up to 500 NE.
Don't worry about the actions; they all work the same except the Krieghoff, I have two of them; it is easy to train on and learn the safety/cocker. You cock it once. You can get one for $15k.
Training on whichever rifle you have is very important, and under field conditions; do not fall into the trap of doing only range shooting and going directly into Africa. Also, learn to hold them correctly; sitting at a bench will not give you a true picture; the foreend must be grasped and allowed to move; its hard to explain but you will quickly see; that is how they are regulated. Also, if you get an ejector rifle; (I hate them, but do own them), you will be tempted to catch the brass when it pops out. I see it all time, on the range. I guarantee that if you do that on the range you will do it in the field, obviating the perceived advantage of an ejector rifle.
Not like a bolt action. You will fail due to not Training as you Fight, to quote our Army doctrine.

The one Colin posted looks good and you get a historic piece as well. As I said, 450-400 is a wonderful caliber and will do anything the bigger ones will.
That Heym is good too; I like them but could never afford one. They use a lot of hand work at expensive German labor prices.

With all the bells and whistles you could get a custom Heym 89 or verney carron or under $40K.

Selling your rifle with it being left handed compromises your resale value. I wouldn’t spend a “lot” of money.

True.
My suggestion; get 3 or 4 of them. A left hander can shoot a RH rifle fine; and if it doesn't have a cheek piece you won't notice. Only the triggers are different and I never saw a need for them to be switched anyway. I'm pretty sure that the top levers still go to the right even on LH rifles. Disclaimer; I am not left-handed.
Training and familiarity are the keys.

Get a left handed stock, with a tad of cast off, maybe articulated triggers and go on an extra safari or two in cost saving..

For a double to USE on safari I wouldn't suggest a high dollar gun, Id keep cost down to $18,000 or under and feel like you don't have to baby it, nothing will mess up a safari worse than a hunter who is constantly digging his double out of a gun case or whining about every little scratch that's bound to take place at least once a day, or while the PH shoots your wounded buffalo. I say the same about a deer or elk hunt, can't put a $10,000 custom rifle in a saddle scabbard or haul it up a snow capped mountain of shale for a goat...I build custom high dollar rifles now and then, but I hunt with a ragged old pre 64 mod 70 30-06 and a whitworth 375, That old 30-06 has been lost twice in African Air Lines, but fortunately recovered days later and that requires a charter flight to camp worth more than the gun as a matter of fact...Your looking for a closet queen I fear. In your case Id buy a $9000. Searcy to hunt with and a closet queen with the rest of that $100,000.

450/400 will likely suffice for what you want.

If you want to step up to the 450, 470, or 500, I suggest the 500NE. Seems to be a pretty good step up in performance but not that big of a step up in recoil or weight. It's the sweet spot for big bore doubles.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
True.
My suggestion; get 3 or 4 of them. A left hander can shoot a RH rifle fine; and if it doesn't have a cheek piece you won't notice. Only the triggers are different and I never saw a need for them to be switched anyway. I'm pretty sure that the top levers still go to the right even on LH rifles. Disclaimer; I am not left-handed.
Training and familiarity are the keys.

Was going to ask this very question, I'm a lefty and used double trigger shotguns extensively in my early years and never noticed any issues, never actually thought about there being any difference. Likewise stock offset and cheek pieces, always have and still do use right hand guns, been a successful hunter and shooter over nearly 6 decades now on a variety of game up to buffalo.
Maybe nice to have a double set up for left handed use but just limits the field for no good technical reason IMO.

And you were successful because most plain working guns have straight stocks, and you trained with what you had. And with the triggers on the wrong side too. So they say.
Good job.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
...
The Heym in the link I believe is in like new condition,I was there when it was test fired at my range,I don't think the gun has ever been hunted,it is also in the classifieds here on AR,the asking price is not bad,I am sure a resonable offer would be considered,I paid about $18,000.00 for my 450-400 with case coloring.

Thanks for all the advice. I had a long conversation with the seller. Indeed it is like new in that he had fired 6 rounds through each barrel. The triggers are also positioned for a lefty (front trigger is to the left of the rear trigger). He sent me more pics and I made an offer and then we agreed on a price reasonable for both of us.

Once I find out if my FFL in Southern CA is open I will wire him the funds next week. I have a leopard/buffalo hunt in August but most likely I will not be comfortable enough for the buffalo portion of the hunt with this rifle by then. Time will tell.

It is regulated for Hornady and I will have to see if Norma ammo will be as accurate. Both weight the same and same fps but BC on the woodleighs is slightly higher than Hornadys. For next year I can play around with loads to duplicate the Hornady results.

Here is the regulated target.

Is that just one right and one left on the regulated target? Looks like they keyholed
I'm sure they didn't but you would think they would have a better setup for producing a regulated target for the customer i.e. a target backing to produce clean cut bullet holes. All that work and expense to produce a fine double then produce an abysmal target like that to present to the purchaser

If you're used to bolt rifles and are only going to end up with one double and have it made bespoke by one of the British houses you could consider a single trigger gun. That way, when the chips are down, you won't have to remember to reach for the second trigger when switching between the two.

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
...
The Heym in the link I believe is in like new condition,I was there when it was test fired at my range,I don't think the gun has ever been hunted,it is also in the classifieds here on AR,the asking price is not bad,I am sure a resonable offer would be considered,I paid about $18,000.00 for my 450-400 with case coloring.

Thanks for all the advice. I had a long conversation with the seller. Indeed it is like new in that he had fired 6 rounds through each barrel. The triggers are also positioned for a lefty (front trigger is to the left of the rear trigger). He sent me more pics and I made an offer and then we agreed on a price reasonable for both of us.

Once I find out if my FFL in Southern CA is open I will wire him the funds next week. I have a leopard/buffalo hunt in August but most likely I will not be comfortable enough for the buffalo portion of the hunt with this rifle by then. Time will tell.

It is regulated for Hornady and I will have to see if Norma ammo will be as accurate. Both weight the same and same fps but BC on the woodleighs is slightly higher than Hornadys. For next year I can play around with loads to duplicate the Hornady results.

Here is the regulated target.

Congratulations on a fine rifle,Re-Hornady ammo,try to find a couple of boxes with different production dates,Hornady is known for changing powders,I have experienced some ammo not regulating well,this is simply because of the powder used in that particular batch,I have had also good luck with calling them on load data.
Re- your hunt in August?if it does happen?I am pretty sure the 500 will be ready to go

Yes, congrats. You got a super rifle.
Single trigger DR; just NO. Practice, train, and be ready. Do not try to make a double rifle act like a bolt action; recipe for failure.
As for that test target; looks like it is two lefts and two rights, on a freely hanging target. Two inches is the usual standard at 50 meters.
Not to worry.

quote:

Originally posted by Rhodes:
If you're used to bolt rifles and are only going to end up with one double and have it made bespoke by one of the British houses you could consider a single trigger gun. That way, when the chips are down, you won't have to remember to reach for the second trigger when switching between the two.

No, No, NO, NOO, NOOOO. Please NOOOOOO!!!!

Good lord. Single triggers, O/U's, and beavertail fore-ends do not make proper double rifles.



BTW, the target looks fine to me. Looks like 2 L and 2 R.

No, No, NO, NOO, NOOOO. Please NOOOOOO!!!!

Good lord. Single triggers, O/U's, and beavertail fore-ends do not make proper double rifles.

Never have there been better words written!
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yes, congrats. You got a super rifle.
Single trigger DR; just NO. Practice, train, and be ready. Do not try to make a double rifle act like a bolt action; recipe for failure.
As for that test target; looks like it is two lefts and two rights, on a freely hanging target. Two inches is the usual standard at 50 meters.
Not to worry.

My first shotgun was my grandfather's old shotgun. A SxS with double triggers and external hammers. Took plenty of birds with it growing up at the farm. I am sure it will come back to me.

This conversation reminded me of that shotgun that I hadn't seen for 40+ years, I just texted my mom who is sheltering in place there to see if it was still around the farm hidden away.

They're all just peoples opinions....

Several well known Elephant Hunters of old used them with no problems at all.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
No, No, NO, NOO, NOOOO. Please NOOOOOO!!!!

Good lord. Single triggers, O/U's, and beavertail fore-ends do not make proper double rifles.

Never have there been better words written!
Cal

I'm gonna have to second, and third the two above on the single trigger on a DOUBLE RIFLE???? NO way if I have a choice.
Having said the above, I must admit having one double rifle with a single trigger, but it is an OVER UNDER so that doesn't count as a real double rifle! If I could have double triggers installed in that O/U it would already have them.
……………………... MacD37

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:
Having hunted with bolt guns all my life I decided to gift myself with a double rifle to take for another elephant hunt when I turn 65 in a couple of years.

Now, caliber I am looking at is either 470 NE or 500 NE. I am left handed so the action has to accommodate that as well, additionally if the front trigger is offset a bit to the right it will need to swap with the back trigger or moved to the left.

Looking at their web site I did notice Heym does make a left handed stock, but not sure about the action. As far as the budget goes my goal is to keep it under 6 figures.

I was also looking at Wesley Richards and noticed that they have 3 different actions; fixed lock, sidelock and droplock (pushes my budget a tad). I am not familiar with different types of actions, anyone care to elaborate?

Thanks in advance.

Heym makes left hand stock and triggers in the 88 and 89, not the top latch (not needed , run it left handed quite well)
Should be well under 6 figures, more 25 to 50k, most averaging 25-35 , (unless you want a truly ornate rifle)
I own a few,
fine rifles, well fitted, very accurate

It is not my opinion; it is a LAW; if you think a firearm with two barrels and one trigger, is a Double Rifle, you are wrong. If you own a rifle with two barrels and they are not side by side, it is Not a Double Rifle. Beaver tail foreend; barely acceptable but only because Chapuis won't make a real one.
I don't care who uses or used such works of Satan. Just because it has two barrels, does not make it a proper Double Rifle.
I make the laws, in my world.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
...

Heym makes left hand stock and triggers in the 88 and 89, not the top latch (not needed , run it left handed quite well)
Should be well under 6 figures, more 25 to 50k, most averaging 25-35 , (unless you want a truly ornate rifle)
I own a few,
fine rifles, well fitted, very accurate

Thanks. As mentioned above I found a Heym 88B PH left handed stock and triggers. Basically, brand new. It arrives next week. After a 10 day waiting period it will be in my hands to play with during this 'rona lockdown.

Very nice get.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Is that just one right and one left on the regulated target? Looks like they keyholed
I'm sure they didn't but you would think they would have a better setup for producing a regulated target for the customer i.e. a target backing to produce clean cut bullet holes. All that work and expense to produce a fine double then produce an abysmal target like that to present to the purchaser

Having been to the factory and shot on their system,
The targets are more for internal documentation-
they are sent with the rifles mostly as a courtesy-

I’m glad you got it.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Get a left handed stock, with a tad of cast off, maybe articulated triggers and go on an extra safari or two in cost saving...

You've got me a bit confused here, Ray. When I was a boy cast off was bending a butt out to the right of the barrels' rib line in order to help get a right-handed shooter's eye in the correct place. A left-handed shooter would therefore need cast-on, to bend it to the left of centre-line.

However, I'm now wondering if you really do mean cast-off because double-rifle sights are higher than a shotgun's bead and that cast-off might take the comb away from a left-handed shooter's cheek bone as the rifle rises in recoil.

That said, my humble Heym has visible cast-off but a prominent cheek piece (on the left, for a right-hander) that tapers forward in a way that would take it away from the face. I know also that English makers' shotguns rarely have cheekpieces and that many of their double rifles follow the same pattern. However, since the first purpose of stock cast is to compensate for the distance between shoulder and eye line, recoil mitigation would normally be an afterthought.

Imagine the thumping those right-handers who have a stock bent for shooting with the left eye must get.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
It is not my opinion; it is a LAW; if you think a firearm with two barrels and one trigger, is a Double Rifle, you are wrong. If you own a rifle with two barrels and they are not side by side, it is Not a Double Rifle. Beaver tail foreend; barely acceptable but only because Chapuis won't make a real one.
I don't care who uses or used such works of Satan. Just because it has two barrels, does not make it a proper Double Rifle.
I make the laws, in my world.

HA ha ha ha ha,I do too until I wake up & smell the coffee

Tanks: Congratulation on your new double rifle. Don't get too wrapped up on the Hornady factory ammo. It frustrated the heck out of me when I tried it in my new VC that was regulated using that ammo. I had John at Safari Arms (great guy to work with!) load me a sampler box of 5 different loads. Every load shot from good to great. I had him load me up some of the "great loads" for my upcoming buffalo hunt that the appears to be on hold for the moment. Now that I have a lot of spare time on my hands I will pull the bullets on the Hornady ammo and try to work up some of my own loads.


Safe shooting and enjoy!

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
Tanks: Congratulation on your new double rifle. Don't get too wrapped up on the Hornady factory ammo. It frustrated the heck out of me when I tried it in my new VC that was regulated using that ammo. ... Now that I have a lot of spare time on my hands I will pull the bullets on the Hornady ammo and try to work up some of my own loads.

Safe shooting and enjoy!

Thanks. The only Hornady ammo I will have is the leftover 8 rounds from the original box the previous owner sent. UPS will be delivering bullets from Cutting Edge bullets tomorrow and I have already received the dies and brass I had ordered. I have a lifetime supply of Federal 215 and 215M and Reloader 15.

Luckily ,Michael458 and Sam Rose had developed a lot of load data using Sam's Heym .500 NE including pressure profiles and that data is available on the B&M web site. The thread about their trials and tribulations is here:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...804/m/1201069141/p/1

Rifle arrives at my FFL on Wednesday and on Thursday the CA 10 day waiting period will begin. I will start making various loads in 1 grain intervals for testing. I'll have to make sure my Labradar external power supply is fully charged as well.

love the CEB's, load them in several calibers

that said, I never had difficulty over the years killing things with Hornady DR ammo, despite the "horror" stories by others of bullets coming apart

once again-
" at what point in the death of the buffalo did the bullet fail"

Tanks: Have you shot the new rifle?

Duggaboye: My issue with the Hornady DR ammo has been accuracy and lot consistency (or lack of). However, the 9.3x74R and 450/400 Hornady ammo that shoots poorly in my double rifles shoots great in my Ruger #1 rifles.

Be safe and good shooting......Larry

quote:

Originally posted by SFRanger7GP:
Tanks: Have you shot the new rifle?

...

I handled it last week when I went through CA DROS. 10 day waiting period ends this coming Sunday though CA DOJ has been using Covid-19 as an excuse to not release firearms on time and using maximum 30 day response time in the law.

They do not do any additional checking beyond NCIS check during which you get results within minutes.

I really hate this State.

Do you mind letting us know exactly what you paid and what the recoil is like? I'm in the market for a RH version of this variety.

Thank you,

https://www.gunsinternational....ifles.c422_p1_o6.cfm

Good place to start.

quote:

Originally posted by SCLawyer:
Do you mind letting us know exactly what you paid and what the recoil is like? I'm in the market for a RH version of this variety.

Thank you,

I paid $16K delivered. Can't say anything about the recoil as CA DOJ still has not released the rifle (14 days now on a supposedly 10 day waiting period). Now, Verney Carron is of the same quality according to some. Here is a link to a .470 NEW (DSC show) rifle at $12,871 and they might negotiate some as well.

https://www.gunsinternational....cfm?gun_id=101398813

Good luck.