Folks, I've posted this clip before but decided to have one more go at it based on some comments made on other threads. Specifically that:

1) The recoil level of calibers over .40 causes excessive recovery time to get back on target.

2) Extractors are significantly slower than ejectors.

It appears to me that the second shot in this sequence comes pretty dang quick after the first shot. The second shot hit squarely on the shoulder and took out the heart so it was an accurate placement. This is a 500 NE.

If you listen closely, after the second shot, just before my PH turns his head to tell me to back up, you can hear the action snap closed with 2 fresh cartridges in the pipes. Also, after the 4th shot you can actually see me reload the rifle while moving away from the spot where the shots were taken. This rifle has extractors.

My question is would the second shot be available any quicker if I had been using a 450/400? and would my reload be faster with ejectors?

Just food for thought! Fire away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzTm3PzBzIw&NR=1

Probably not....... You seem to be very proficient and know
your gun. Well done. IMHO accuracy and shot placement is
a little more important than "speed". Speed will come in time
if you practice enough.

Good Shooting

Tetonka
DRSS

I own all the calibres you mentioned and shoot them.

I would say probably not as well. the "first" 2nd barrel is very quick. You might be very conscious of this but do it in a subconscious way like me in than you really hold onto the gun to try to limit the amount of lift in the barrels.

Your reloads are fast - IMHO, quick reloads are a practised art and can be quick if you do it "without thinking". As soon as you "think" about it, the whole thing turns to crap IMHO !!!

Well done.


One last question - the 4th shot, it looked like you didn't quite aim or pulled the trigger very quickly once on the aim - where did the 4th shot go ?

Or was it aimed over the heads of the animals which would explain the shot / speed of you pulling the trigger.

.

The 4 shot went in between the shoulders about 8 inches from the 3rd shot. I actually have a picture of me standing on the belly side of the cow clearly showing where the 3rd and 4th shot went into the back. I'll try to load it into photo bucket and post it here.

That's fine. good shoting then.

I know sometimes, particularly with one of my 500's that it is very easy to get "on target" quickly and so the shots can be very quick.

Anyway, good video to have.

.

Hopefully this picture will post. I'm still trying to figure out the photobucket thing!

the heck with ejectors vs. extractors...your clip should be used to show others the right way to do it. I wonder how many hrs you put into training for that 3 mins?

I first thought you might be fishing for compliments....but people that shoot like that don't need a compliment. 100%

No, not fishing for compliments. It's just that I see folks on this forum with a lot of experience making statements that don't ring true to me. Just thought I'd offer some evidence to the contrary.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
No, not fishing for compliments. It's just that I see folks on this forum with a lot of experience making statements that don't ring true to me. Just thought I'd offer some evidence to the contrary.

Agree with the 1st sentence.

With the 2nd sentence, more like proof to the contrary.

If you practice, you can be nearly as fast with an extractor double
as with an Ejector double an your video proved it, not only that
but in a real life DG situation and not on a range.

I am similar with my Extractor WR 500/465. It's just one of those
guns that lends itself to fast reloads with practice. I have others
that just don't allow a good "flow".

.

quote:

My question is would the second shot be available any quicker if I had been using a 450/400? and would my reload be faster with ejectors?

Only faster when using a single trigger.

This cow is getting more press than Marilyn Monroe.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
No, not fishing for compliments. It's just that I see folks on this forum with a lot of experience making statements that don't ring true to me. Just thought I'd offer some evidence to the contrary.

Agree with the 1st sentence.

With the 2nd sentence, more like proof to the contrary.

If you practice, you can be nearly as fast with an extractor double
as with an Ejector double an your video proved it, not only that
but in a real life DG situation and not on a range.

I am similar with my Extractor WR 500/465. It's just one of those
guns that lends itself to fast reloads with practice. I have others
that just don't allow a good "flow".

.

I agree that the best learning of the fast re-loading of a double rifle is when in the game fields! However very few people can afford to practice enough only on Dangerous game to learn it!

IMO the best practice for learning instinctive shooting, and re-loading is long term repetition while stump shooting in the woods! When I lived in the desert I used to go into the desert on sage brush flats at near sunrise, or just before twilight in the evening, and walk around snap shooting at jumped jackrabbits, shooting both barrels, dumping the cases and reloading as quick as I could. With the running jacks if you hit the dirt within six inches of them you are ON TARGET for a running buffalo or lion. When you get where you actually hit 3 out of 10 running jacks,with a big bore double rifle and the misses are within six inches of him on the run, no buffalo, or lion will be missed.

On a range the best is firing a course of four shots on targets starting at 25 yards being timed, on stationary small targets, or even better on moving across or coming to you also starting at 25 yards. An invisible 8 inch circle in the kill zone of the moving target being the scoring place having to be hit or the shots do not count. This will teach you not to fumble the re-load, as well as having to know where to place those shots in a quick fashion on a moving target.

With this practice you can learn the ways you can work best with your method of cartridge carry, and the best way to re-load the rifle, and the timing puts pressure on you to do it right! Admittedly, the moving target or the stationary small target is not going to gore, or bite you, but the competition with other shooters still pressures you to do it as fast as you can, and still hit what you are shooting at!

Monty Kalogeras’s SAFARI SHOOTING SCHOOL Cell 512-217-4252, Ranch 325-265-4387 www.safarishootingschool.com has a very well designed course of walking along with life size pop-up targets, and charging targets that he activates with a remote he carries along with the student, so the shooter is taken by surprise, and may come from any direction. This exercise teaches instinctive shooting and also quick reloading and getting back on target before the target gets to you. Our DRSS groupe was invited by Monty to go thorugh this cours from our get togather down at 4K ranch ner Brady, Tx, being about 20 mile from the school. A real eye opener to many of the mistakes guys were making and not realising it.

It would be nice if one could afford to practice only on live dangerous game but that is not realistic for most of us. So we must do with what we have. In any event it is the practice with the rifle you will be hunting with, wearing the cloths you will be wearing, and using the cartridge carry system you will be using in the field that will teach you more than anything else!

Extractors or ejectors, one must use what you have as fast, and accurately as you can, and practice with that rifle and equipment is the only way to get fast and still be accurate under pressure of being timed and competing against other shooters for score and time! Then apply the learned practice on the game in the field without having to think about it!

...................................Just my humble opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
No, not fishing for compliments. It's just that I see folks on this forum with a lot of experience making statements that don't ring true to me. Just thought I'd offer some evidence to the contrary.

Agree with the 1st sentence.

With the 2nd sentence, more like proof to the contrary.

If you practice, you can be nearly as fast with an extractor double
as with an Ejector double an your video proved it, not only that
but in a real life DG situation and not on a range.

I am similar with my Extractor WR 500/465. It's just one of those
guns that lends itself to fast reloads with practice. I have others
that just don't allow a good "flow".

.

I agree that the best learning of the fast re-loading of a double rifle is when in the game fields! However very few people can afford to practice enough only on Dangerous game to learn it!

Mac

I wasn't clear in my post. My Bad.

I meant he demonstrated fast reloading using an extractor gun in a DG situation,
as opposed to "just being able to do it at the range".


BTW, Good post.

Todd, I shoot an ejector rifle and knowning how to load smoothly and efficiently. Couple things I noticed. Your binos are in the way and you ammo should be in front of you and not on your hip. After breaking your double you just reach down to pocket area and ammo there. Gravity will make extractors work if your ammo is clean and not greasy.
I hold the rifle differently then you and take recoil in arms and not shoulder watching how you take recoil and roll with it. My rifle goes up maybe 4 to 6 inches and back to plane immediately.

Mike

retriever

Interesting point re location of the ammo.

I also have mine on the front - or the main ammo holder. I might have another one to the side.

One thing, and hence this post, is some ammo carriers - mine included - are open (elastic loops only, no flap) and scratching the stock is a real potential problem.

I prefer in front as the ammo is "just there",
nice and handy, where I have practised from.

What are your thoughts on this.

.

My ammo is in front. Not on the hip. Don't remember my binos ever getting in the way. They usually stay tight against my chest.

This is my typical setup

quote:

Only faster when using a single trigger.

Yes! (especially when it doubles! (And it will!)

JW

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
Todd, I shoot an ejector rifle and knowning how to load smoothly and efficiently. Couple things I noticed. Your binos are in the way and you ammo should be in front of you and not on your hip. After breaking your double you just reach down to pocket area and ammo there. Gravity will make extractors work if your ammo is clean and not greasy.
I hold the rifle differently then you and take recoil in arms and not shoulder watching how you take recoil and roll with it. My rifle goes up maybe 4 to 6 inches and back to plane immediately.

Mike

Mike, that is good advice on the ammo position but only if the guy is built like you, or Todd! In my case if the ammo was in the front I'd need a someone to hold my belly up so I could get to the ammo!

One thing that seems to work best for me in the rifle loaded, and having two cartridges on the back of my trigger hand, and the rest of the ammo on my left hip! I don't like loading the third and fourth shot from my waist! I find the re-load to be much faster with the two rounds within 5 inches of the cambers on the back of my hand or as Mike Jines using a wrist holder for two rounds on the trigger hand side. loading with the left hand!

The bynocs the set-up Todd has is OK, but I like mine on a strap under my left arm.

In the final analysis, it all boils down to what works best for you!
...........................

Yea, I've tried the bino's under the left arm. For some reason, I just can't get comfortable with them there. I'm thinking about going back to mini's however for DG hunting. Those full sized Leica's get a bit heavy and they are obviously more than needed in the Jesse.

Mac, what kind of set up do you have for the cartridges on the back of you hand? Do you have a picture?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Yea, I've tried the bino's under the left arm. For some reason, I just can't get comfortable with them there. I'm thinking about going back to mini's however for DG hunting. Those full sized Leica's get a bit heavy and they are obviously more than needed in the Jesse.

Mac, what kind of set up do you have for the cartridges on the back of you hand? Do you have a picture?

I use a mechanic's glove with a velcro wrist closier that leaves an opening forward of the velcro. I stick two rounds in that opening with the rimms sticking out to the thumb side of my trigger hand! My trigger hand never leaves the rifles pistol grip and I simply pull both rounds out between my left thumb, and fore finger and drop them in the chambers, much like the picture of Elmer re-loading at the bottom of my posts! when the rifle is closed it is ready to fire shots three and four! I also have a couple of leather gloves that were modified for a couple of larger cartridges like the 577. I'll try to take some pictures of these if I can figure out how to post them!

By the way Todd is there a shooting range over in Weatherford, or do you shoot on your own place?

Mac,

I wish I could shoot at my own place. I have 11 acres but the subdivision doesn't allow it! I'm going out to check out a new ranch for deer hunting tomorrow. It's about 15 miles from me and has a range set up. Hopefully that works out because right now, I have about an hours drive, either West, or East to get to the nearest ranges.

I usually use bicycle or weight lifters gloves that fasten with velcro like you described. I think I'll try out your method next time I head to the range. Thanks for the tip!