The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Merkel or Krieghoff - comparison & opinionsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I am looking to buy my first double - headed back on another ele hunt in Caprivi next year and want to use a classic double. Prefer 450NE but open to 470 NE or possible 500NE. I have looked at the Krieghoffs and Merkels. I saw a video on the Krieghoff cocking system and like the extra safety (since I'm not a PH) but have not found much info on the Merkel. The Merkels seem to run a bit less than the K-guns when comparing both basic offerings.. I want to stay under 10k if possible.. Opinions? "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | ||
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I borrowed a Krieghoff in 9.3x74 on stag hunt and was pleasantly surprised with it. Feels great, looks nice, nice triggers with single set for fine shooting, and accurate. No experience with the Merkel unfortunately. | |||
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Scott, Not to hijack your thread, but why the 450 NE over the 470? I'd like to read your thoughts on caliber choice. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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I had a .470 Krieghoff and it was a proper gun. Well balanced and very accurate. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Find a way to shoot them both and pick the one that works for you - one will definitely be better for you. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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You know.. I'm not really set on caliber yet.. I was looking at the 450 NE due to ease of finding bullets for practice & maybe hog hunting when not using it in Africa.. I've never shot a 500NE, have shot the 470 and 450 - no problem with them. Curious as to how the 500 would compare from a recoil perspective. I'm not recoil sensitive but would be good to understand.. If I find a 470 in a K-gun for a good price the question may be irrelevant.. :-) I intend to hunt more than just ele and buff with it and with my eyes a scope or red dot is almost mandatory anymore... I have a friend that is a Krieghoff dealer - he is checking price and availability.. If I was a PH, I would be more inclined to look at the Heym and not the cockig system of the K-gun but as a client, I really like the extra safety.. "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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There is a steal on a merkel 470 in classified ads for $7000. Will not find a better price! Skip Nantz | |||
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I saw that... I'm trying to find information on the Merkel guns.. How they cock, safeties, triggers,ejectors.. all the stuff Krieghoff has in their product videos.. LOL! "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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Just found videos on the Merkel! "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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Best to do some detailed research on this one. I am no expert but like you I was looking for my first double (still am!) and did a lot of research. My findings lead me to pass the Merkel as an option simply because of the number of cases of the rifles doubling if the left barrel is shot first! I do not think they have intercepting sears. The VC seems to have a better reputation IMHO. If I had the spare money I would either go for a Heym or a used English classic. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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There goes his $10K cap! :-) | |||
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Yep, pretty hard to find a NE double made in Merry Olde England for less than $20,000. By the way, recoil on a .500 NE is very similar to .470 NE or .450 NE. It is really more about how the rifle fits you. I have owned both Merkel and Krieghoff, before I got stupid and bought a W.J. Jeffery. I think if I were to buy one I'd go with one of the new Krieghoffs with ejectors. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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You can't get a Heym for $10K, even used. They keep their prices artificially high, even with the fall in the Euro. And you certainly can't get anything English but a hammer BPE double. I have two Kriefhoffs; nothing wrong with them; realize they are more machine made than others. Merkels are good, never owned one though. I don't think K makes a .450. You should also consider a Searcy; regulated great and come in .450, and are quite cost effective, and are very nice quality; disclaimer; I have a .450 Searcy. Ejectors; NO. I think they are useless and I have seen guys at the range who also practice catching the brass. Guess what; you will do that in the field too; a bad habit. Just learn to load them under duress. | |||
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Pretty sure I'm gonna go with a Krieghoff.. Would love to order up a new one but don't think I can stay in my budget if I do.. "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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No, new ones are far more than $10K, but there are used ones out there. I like mine, a 9.3 and a 450-400; bear in mind that Krieghoff only has one frame size and everything sits on that, and it seems like one barrel size for DG calibers too; so my 450-400 is quite heavy, and a .500 on the same frame and barrel size, is quite light. But it doesn't kick too much. (in 450-500). Searcys' barrels are made like English rifles with most of the weight at the breech, so they balance very differently than the Ks. | |||
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For a 450 , 470, 500 - In the used $10k and under market - I would look for 1st Chapuis , 2nd Merkel , 3rd Searcy, 4th Krieghoff, Having owned - K 500 & 500/416 , Merkel 500, Chapuis 470 & 9.3 , Searcy 470 and several other Double Rifles - for my money , that would be my order of search - The K guns while accurate - are impossible to cock from the shoulder without releasing grip and relenquishing control of the wrist and point of aim If I could afford a little more - I would look for a Heym or a British rifle or Continental rifle | |||
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Agree - properly chamber DR's do not require ejectors . As to artifically elevated prices on used Heyms I guess other used items such as Rolex 's are also artificially high , as well -truly it is jst a function of the market -just like houses in the best part of any city , Sought after items hold value | |||
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Much like the 280 Remington is referred to as " the thinking man's 30-06" The 450 could be thought of as the same parallel to the 470 If you are a reloader - the 450 is a great choice- for reasons you noted You give up nothing to a 470 in penetration and killing effect The 500 IS a step up in recoil and perhaps , only perhaps , killing effect My 577, 500's and 470's are sold now - the 450 is now my " big" rifle | |||
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The recoil on my .500 (VC) is soft compared to the .470 so much so my kids shoot it. The Krieghoff safety suited me. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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True and one needs to note this and to override this restraint you need to practise cocking before you raise the rifle. With all doubles you need a lot of practice. Like I said the Krieghoff served me well and was well made and reliable. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I agree on the K guns,I have one in 500/416 extractor model,I like the gun & have no issues with the safety at all,I have also had a Merkel in the past, bought that gun used, one of my buddies has that gun now & it has performed well all this time ,with an elephant & buff down,I also own at this time two Heym's,you kinda get what you pay for in fit & finish with different brands & relative cost,they are all fine guns that will require a little tweaking perhaps,I would buy any of these brands again. DRSS | |||
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I own a 500NE Krieghoff extractor model.I have hunted 8 cape buffalo and several other animals with mine and had no problem getting used to the cocker.I find them to be very reliable and accurate rifles. | |||
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I owned a 470 Merkel and a 500/416 Krieghoff. Both were great doubles. The cocking mechanism on the K gun is a non-issue if you can walk and chew gum at the same time....and I actually like it. Prefer it?...hmmm.....dunno....but I had no issues at all. Worst thing I ever did was get rid of that Merkel....I had JJ do a couple of minor tweaks to it and it fit me like a glove and shot perfectly. Live and learn. Gary | |||
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My first double was a Merkel in 500NE. I had zero issues with it as it was a great rifle. Took several elephant and buffalo with it. Recoil tolerance is highly personal but I find the 500NE and 470 / 450 class to be very similar. I do believe there is a bit of an increased effect on game shot with the 500NE but for some reason, I didn't see much difference between the 500NE and the 577NE. For me, the 500NE is the sweet spot in terms of performance for the weight (of both rifle and ammo) and recoil level. | |||
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Agreed! | |||
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...................Plus one on the 500NE! When I bought my 470NE Merkel they didn't have the rifle chambered for the 500NE yet or that is what I would have bought! However I find nothing to complain about with the 470NE Merkel. On the K-gun The only reason I don't own one is they simply don't fit me well, and I like the combi-cocking sysyem so that is not a problem! .......................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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If you are waiting until you shoulder a Krieghoff to cock it, you are doing it wrong. As for Heym prices, I was referring to the artificially high prices for new ones, in spite of the record low Euro value against the dollar. In 2008 it was $1.60 per Euro; soon it will be one to one. Rifles are built with Euros, so the price to US customers should have dropped drastically; it hasn't. There is no reason for them to be twice the price of a Merkel; better-yes; but twice as good? But as long as customers agree to pay the artificial high prices, there is no incentive for them to be lower. I suspect that is not the factory that is seeing the benefit though. | |||
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You may want to add Chapuis to the list of fresh made rifles. They're well made and accurate. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Merkel or Krieghoff - comparison & opinions
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