quote:

it had the dremeled crowns and it did not shoot well

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Not shooting well and then the dremeled muzzle was discovered or was the muzzle discovered and therefore it was shooting well? With factory ammo?

Will

I think a bit of both.

Some guns shot well, some didn't.

Then the dremel regulation method was highlighted.
Again, even if they had been regulated by the
dremel regulation method, some shot well and some didn't.

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i was wondering: it seems that the merkels etc that are owned and used by the choosen few are in fact accepted and bragged to be the best. if they do cross over or not within 2 in. spread of each other a thread appears with a possible remedy ie: it cant be the gun its the powder or the bullet or the brass etc etc etc its to bad that this same courtesy cant be given the lowly sabatti. its what it is and affords those of us that cant afford 5 or6 figures for a gun the joy of finally owning an affordable double.

SDS....

quote:

Originally posted by usps:
i was wondering: it seems that the merkels etc that are owned and used by the choosen few are in fact accepted and bragged to be the best. if they do cross over or not within 2 in. spread of each other a thread appears with a possible remedy ie: it cant be the gun its the powder or the bullet or the brass etc etc etc its to bad that this same courtesy cant be given the lowly sabatti. its what it is and affords those of us that cant afford 5 or6 figures for a gun the joy of finally owning an affordable double.

All properly built double rifles are regulated to a factory ammo that should be listed and documented on the "regulation target" provided with the gun. The problem arises when the factory ammo the gun was regulated with is either not available in the country where the gun was purchased or the factory specifications are not published for handloaders to copy or mimic. Or suppose one wants to use only Hornady factory ammo, and the gun was regulated with Federal factory ammo.

If a Merkel, Heym, Kreighoff, Westley Richards or any number of great gun makers does not shoot well, it is because the correct load / bullet is not being used. So for these fine guns to shoot well, one must use the ammo it was regulated with or closely mimic that load. If one cannot except that, then that person should not buy a double rifle.

There is an exception to that rule; buy a bespoke gun where you can select the load you want the gun to be regulated with. Butch Searcy, Bailey Bradshaw, and others will do that for you, and that's a great way to go.

As far as the Sabbatti goes, I think if you can find one that shoots well with a load you are happy with, then so be it. The overall construction of the gun seems sound thus far. The issues with these guns are in the techniques used for regulation, the support system backing the guns (USSG), and availability of a warranty program that properly gets problems fixed in short order.

I have been a nay-sayer of these guns from the beginning for two reasons: 1) USSG does not have a reputation of representing the best of products nor the support system to warranty their products. 2) From a historical perspective, I did not think that exclusivity of this product to Cabelas would be good as Cabelas has traditionally taken a Walmart business model in the past. I was wrong on #2; I have to commend Cabelas for accepting returns with full refunds on these guns for apparently any reason of unhappiness. Good for them.

Would I shoot a Sabbatti that shot well with a load I was happy with. Hell yeah. But, I'd rather take my chances and put my money toward a Merkel or Heym. With these guns, I know what I'm getting.

Mike

I have to jump in with my target. Yes, I'd love to own a fun shooting 5k DR who woulddn't. However, I went with a Sercy since Butch picks up the phone when I call him and will fix it when every necessary. Maybe I got lucky with my rifle but why settle for a Walmart DR when you can just enjoy the pain spend the extra cash and be happy. I'm a little underwelmed by some of the Sab groups I've seen posted.

Brad

I did as well with my Sabbati.

That's exactly what I'd expect from a Searcy DR.
I personally would like to see a little more separation from left to right, approximately 1/2", but I think I could confidently shoot that rifle without hesitation.

And why should we expect less. Butch probably makes one of the top DR's on the planet. He has evolved over the years with innovations to his actions, designing his own to make them stronger and refining his barrels and making sure they shoot true.

That's what you get from custom guns like Butch, Bailey, or the more expensive custom VC's, English, etc.

I hope Bailey can have the same effect on the DR market that Butch has had. We will then have two of the most important DR builders in the world right here in the US. What a concept.

And Butch does not receive enough credit. He invested in a dinasaur when dinasaurs were extinct, and brought them back to life in the US.

We owe Butch Searcy alot of due. Thanks.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
And Butch does not receive enough credit. He invested in a dinasaur when dinasaurs were extinct, and brought them back to life in the US.

Mike

I don't think anyone of the old school gets enough credit. Jim Bell, Geoff from Woodleigh, a couple of others I can't think of the names ATM, all who made eshooting DR's easier possible again - before every man and his dog jumped on the band wagon.

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Jorge I'm happy your happy with the Sabbati. I knew that it would be a big jump to pick up a double rifle. I know myself all too well and that I suffer buyer remorse often by purchasing on price alone. I asked myself if I could have one double what would it be and a I came up with the Searcy at 10k it was within reach but not too expensive that I'd be afraid to hunt with a gun worth more than the car I drive to work each day. I really wanted a working mans Rolex and that what the feild grades Searcys are in my mind. Great doubles that you can eventually afford with someone who stands behind them. If the Sabati's were 2k Hell I'd have 2 of them but at 5k no thanks hence the Feild Grade. I just like the feel of the Searcy. Just like the CZ's vs the RSM's I'm a big RSM fan. I like the idea of the Sabati's since it will hopefully bring out more DR shooters I just don't want people to give up on the concept because they get a real dog.

Brad

Actually my friend, I returned the Sabbati. It had one barrel with the regulation by dremel tool and I just could not get past that. There are some owners that have had great luck an MANY that haven't. Bottom line is in my view they are a great value when they don't have the dremel issue. Cheers, jorge

I've chimed in on the Sabatti subject(s) in the past. Good or bad, those that have Sabatti's with 'issues' are lucky at this point to have Cabela's standing up and/or running interference for them. But how much longer will this continue? How long is Cabela's 'exclusive rights' deal and who's going to step in if they bow out?

Before Cabela's, the Sabatti (NE chamberings) were a $2.5-3K SxS DR. With Cabela's running interference they're $5-5.5K. IF I had an inclination to buy a new Sabatti, and given they're troubles, I think I'd opt to do so while Cabela's was still in the picture.

OK, I'm not trying to be a wise a--, but are not these barrels crossing if the two shots are that close together at 50yds?

In a perfect world, shouldn't the holes be EXACTLY apart the same distance as the center of the bores?

When one orders a custom built DR, can you specify if you want the bullets to converg like this of if you want them with a proper English regulation?

Thanks!

I prefer a slight bit of separation - as you said, the width of the barrels apart.

However, even with a scope, at 50 yards you could still get slight movement and a slightly different sight picture as you pull the trigger.

As long as you or the shooter knows which is Right and which is Left and what the exact sight picture was when the trigger was pulled,
I wouldn't be worried with that, at least not in a 450/400.

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