I like the K rifles but the cocking mechanism is a stumbling block for me. Can someone tell me how it opperates? And further, it looks like it's in the way of where you place your hand on the grip and could slam into the web of the hand under recoil.

Thanks for your help.

There are several threads discussing (or cussing) the merits (or lack of) of the K-Gun. Some are very recent, so you may want to refer to those if you do not generate enough interest from this post.

This is how it operates:
http://www.krieghoff.com/content/view/29/115/

The cocking device is not in the way of your hand. Hold the rifle properly and you will be fine.

Here is how it works;
The Rifle can be carried loaded but un-cocked.
To fire, you push the Cocking/Safety on the tang forward until it catches. The Rifle is now cocked and ready to fire. After firing you can reload and the Rifle is still cocked and ready to fire again. To un-cock you push it forward again and it will return to the un-cocked position. This I'm given to understand is the difference between The "K" and a Blazer. I like the way the "K" works as you can carry it over your sholder without worrying if a tree branch or something will release a standard push safety. Also after firing and reloading it is still cocked for any follow up shots if needed. Hope this helps.

The cocking device does not hit your hand under recoil. It operates just like a safety on a shotgun except that the amount of pressure required to cock the gun is more than required to move a safety forward. Once cocked and then fired, the gun is still cocked when closed again.
Peter.

I have shot a few K guns, and I hunt with Blaser Combo Guns, and a Heym O/U.

Their cocking mechanisms is not an issue for me..

I have never had one uncock by accident.

The more I use them the more I like them...

Just to not tell Mac.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have shot a few K guns, and I hunt with Blaser Combo Guns, and a Heym O/U.

Their cocking mechanisms is not an issue for me..

I have never had one uncock by accident.

The more I use them the more I like them...

Just to not tell Mac.

Don't tell Tony but they don't un-cock by accident, they do it on purpose!

The problem is, they don't re-cock on opening ON PURPOSE. The K-gun double does re-cock on opening, after fireing.

Okay, I was one of the guys that poo-pooed the safety/cocker on the Krieghoff.

But I do not find it any sort of impediment to quick operation, and it is much safer when carried by a gunbearer.

In a very big way the fact that the Blaser doesn't re-cock it's self after opening for any reason. In fact if the rifle is loaded, and opened it is automatically de-cocked. If that opening is to un-load the rifle that is OK, but if you fire one or both barrels on an animal that is taking issue with your having poked a hole or holes in him, and those shots don't do the trick, when open the rifle for the re-load, and slam the rifle shut, you better remember to re-cock the rifle, that is if you actually have time to re-cock it.

The K-gun on the other hand, when you cock the rifle, and fire one or both barrels, and break for a re-load , and close the action it is ready to fire, with only the pulling of the triggers. To me in a tight spot that is a significant difference in the two. A difference that may cost you your life. I will not even use a double rifle with an automatic safety, much less one that automatically de-cocks it's self in the middle of a fight with a cape buffalo. Most makers advise against an automatic safety on DGR doubles!

Here is a quote from the Merkel owners manual:

" OPERATION OF THE DOUBLE RIFLE "SAFETY" MECHANISM
The double rifle safety mechanism is located on the tang of the receiver assembly just in front of the butt stock on the top side. Some Merkel double rifles are equipped with automatic safeties, i.e. the safety is automatically engaged each time the breech is opened. Double rifles in 375 H&H, .416 Rigby, or .470 Nitro Express are not equipped with automatic safeties because they are designed for dangerous game when the need for a quick reloading and follow-up shots are critical"
It then goes on to explain how safeties are supposed to work, but you can see the rifle maker doesn't recommend an auto safety for any rifle used for dangerous game. The auto safety that actually not only puts it on safe, but de-cocks the rifle as well, is not my idea of a good feature!

quote:

The K-gun on the other hand, when you cock the rifle, and fire one or both barrels, and break for a re-load , and close the action it is ready to fire, with only the pulling of the triggers. To me in a tight spot that is a significant difference in the two. A difference that may cost you your life. I will not even use a double rifle with an automatic safety, much less one that automatically de-cocks it's self in the middle of a fight with a cape buffalo. Most makers advise against an automatic safety on DGR doubles!

Why don't we move on to a less controversial topic.....like CRF vs Pushfeed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But don't call the K manager up there in Pennsylvania. First, you get the third degree from the receptionist as to why you, as a mere mortal, would want to waste the time of the Supreme Leader, and then you get voice mail. Apparently DR's are a pittance in the K world, because the guy never calls back!

"why you, as a mere mortal"

Tell 'em your name is Joshua, of the House of David!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Okay, I was one of the guys that poo-pooed the safety/cocker on the Krieghoff.

But I do not find it any sort of impediment to quick operation, and it is much safer when carried by a gunbearer.

So, does that make you half cocked? That WOULD explain a lot.....

With just a little bit of practice, it is easy to get acclimated to the cocking device on the Kreighoff and I think they are indeed safer then than the traditional safety on most double rifles. Krieghoff makes a great gun and it is a good value as well.

K-guns are reliable and well built doubles. To me, the safety/decock is a non issue.....very easy to get used to and really not hard to move forward at all. I can tell you that it certainly beats un unchambered round that I've heard some PH's requiring...both in bolts and doubles. No thanks.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Thanks all for great input.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
But don't call the K manager up there in Pennsylvania. First, you get the third degree from the receptionist as to why you, as a mere mortal, would want to waste the time of the
Supreme Leader, and then you get voice mail. Apparently DR's are a pittance in the K world, because the guy never calls back!

I did call them and they were extremely helpful. When the service person could not answer my questions she put me thru to Manager of Tech. Operation who took time to explain in detail some features and sent a slew of photos. He went into depth about the cocking feature so that I'm at ease with it now.

If I do decide on getting a K gun I think I'll be very happy with it.

Again, thanks all.

What calibre[s] are you thinking about?

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
What calibre[s] are you thinking about?

I'm leaning toward the 450/400 3"

Had a .500/416- nice gun. Just swoped it for a .375 FL today. The .375 has a nicer balance to it. Never had a chance to hold a .450/400 BUT if it has the same feel and balance to it as the 500/416, I would go with the more modern cartridge. The only reason to choose the 450/400 would be if they have used slimmer barrels and got the balance closer to the .375FL

My 500/416 shot both 410grn Woodleighs and 300grn Barnes TSX extremely well. Also shot cast 400grn bullets at 1600fps to point of aim and regulated fine for practice.

Ganyana, what load did you use for your cast bullets? Mine seem to shoot low, but I haven't shot them in a while and really need to get out and practice some more, as long as they shoot closer to point of aim.
Peter.

40 grns 4457. Started at 35 grns and worked up until it was shooting close enough to a) use on pigs on a driven hunt and b) use for all except the 75m target on the zim PH shoot. 50grns is way too much...would think consider 45 as maximun.

as always, my rifle proved true. take the load for the 410grn bullets, leave power charge the same ans seat a bullet 25% less (ie 300grn) and it will regulate. It more or less did - needed to drop down 3grs to get it perfect

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
BUT, it shoots great and doesn't kick enough to prevent you from shooting 20 rounds or more at one sitting. Try that with a 470 or 500 and a few rounds will do you.

The most rounds I put through my 470 K-gun in a sitting was 32. Recoil-wise I could easily shoot 50 plus.

quote:

Originally posted by bigfats:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
What calibre[s] are you thinking about?

I'm leaning toward the 450/400 3"

That would be a PERFECT CHOICE IMHO.

I would have it scoped with a 1 to 4X Swarovski or S&B, illuminated reticle, with QD mounts.

I have taken a lot of game with a 450/400 double rifle, including deer, pigs, caribou, black bear, warthog, zebra, cape buff, lion and elephant.

Pulled the trigger today and ordered a Krieghoff Big Five in 450/400

Was suprised to see the usual reloading suppliers are backordered on Hornady 400 SP bullets???

Any recommendations on handloads will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

quote:

I have a K gun in 450-400; they seem to use the same barrel profile for everything and it is fairly heavy for the caliber (11.8 with scope)

Yeah, it is absurd that for a gun that costs that much money that they can't figure that out. Quite pathetic that they ignore that or just figure the customer is too dumb to know.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I have a K gun in 450-400; they seem to use the same barrel profile for everything and it is fairly heavy for the caliber (11.8 with scope). BUT, it shoots great and doesn't kick enough to prevent you from shooting 20 rounds or more at one sitting. Try that with a 470 or 500 and a few rounds will do you.

A 450/400 at nearly 12 pounds! No wonder it doesn't kick. This shows the fallacy of putting a scope on a double. Too much weight!

dpcd, pull the scope off that Krieghoff and buy yourself a nice little .375 Ruger to pair with it and put the scope on the Ruger.

Dave, and your S2 weighs how much, without scope?? Over 11.5lbs if I remember correctly.

Why do some think that because a 450/400 has a smaller bore than a 450/470 cal double that they should weigh 3 lbs less???

They both do the same job.

So IMHO if a 450/400 weighs the same as a 470, and is thus, much more plesant to shoot, and thus the hunter shoots it better, what is the problem???

N E 450 No2:

The problem is that on a hunt, you carry it a lot more than you shoot it. Granted, my S2 is pretty heavy but then again, it's a .470, not a 450/400. That's a lot more gun. Frankly, it's too heavy to put a scope on it but I wouldn't do that anyway because I just don't care for a scope on a double. The 450/400 is a very modest cartridge and in my view, a rifle in that caliber ought to weigh no more than ten to ten and a half pounds MAX! My Kreighoff without a scope in .500/.416 weighs in at around that weight and I think that is about perfect.

This really shows the "problem" if you will of scoping a double. Because of that extra barrel, they start out heavier than their bolt rifle counterparts. Think about it. Would you buy a .404 Jeffery that weighed nearly twelve pounds with a scope? Probably not. You would want it to come in at around ten pounds right? Why make your 450/400 weigh as much as a .500 NE?

quote:

You would want it to come in at around ten pounds right?

A sissy 404 Jeffery? How about 7 and a half pounds?

My first outing with the K 450-400 3" to the range yesterday. Put several loads thru it and this one it seemed to like real well. Distance is 50 yards with Hornady solids and RL19 at 2100 f/s.

Glad I decided on the Krieghoff.

Pretty darn good shooting. And beautiful wood too.

In my limited experience my K 470 is a consistently accurate and repeatable shooter.

you got Peabody rifles?

Rich