Norwegian micormanaging ignorant beurocrats did not approve of my 500 NE application. They had no legal right but confabulated range restrictions (12.7mm) as a reason. I discussed alternatives with Bailey Bradshaw and ended up with .450 NE 3 1/4 but not in his falling block.. He is willing to scale up his droplock action to .450! Will use the nice wood I bought from Larry. Gun will have extended top and bottom tang, metal grip cap, articulated front trigger, case color hardened, ghost ring sight (flip down), leaf sights 100 and 200m. It will have 26-28 inch barrels (will let Bailey choose what feels best) and weigh 10.5-11 pounds. This will be a dream weapon

That should be a real sweetheart of a rifle. Please post photos of it once you take delivery.

I understand it probably will be some time before delivery but I got a quote of within 18 months, maybe faster. I am aware many have waited a long time for delivery but I understand he has ramped up production by various means this year. Through our mail correspondence I am impressed with the technical answares he has given and his patience with my ambivalence with regards to what my order will be.

I struggled with the choice of 500 NE falling block vs 375 flanged magnum droplock. But now that I can't get the .500 and the droplock can be built in .450 3 1/4 NE, the traditionalist in me took over and I went with the droplock.

The falling block design is more practical and also looks great, but the droplock has a nostalgia, especially in .450, that I could not resist. I also hope it can be built similar (but not a close copy) to WR with regards to apperance and "feel".

On another note, I think the gun is extractor only and have not asked if it can be built with ejector. How important do you guys think having an enjector is on a gun like this for hunting buffalo.

Norsk

Choices like yours are never easy but I think you have made a good one.

Did Bailey say how the lumps are attached to the barrels on his droplock, is it a monoblock or a shoelump?

Regards
Rhodes

I asked if they were chopper lump, but not reply yet. What advantages are there to each type? If he is following the British tradition, the barrels are chopper lump...

On Rusty's droplock we brazed on a shoelump and rib extension. On a side note we have in our shop a WR droplock .470 pre-30'sish that is shoelumped with a seperate rib extension that goes down the barrels about 2" before meeting the rest of the top rib. Dont know if they brazed it or soldered it.



This pic might show the rib extension/top rib joint:

What a beautiful rifle!

I guess that answers my question. Thanks Aron. You guy's have built an exquisite and nicely proportioned rifle there. What caliber is that one and who profiles your barrels if you don't mind me asking? A lot of WR doubles appear to be shoelump.

Norsk in my opinion shoelump barrels are the best as you don't have the seam where barrels screw into a monoblock and you don't have the expense of chopperlump barrels.

Rhodes

Please note that the rifle pictured above was not built by us, it a real deal .470 Westley Richards. Bailey is making additional barrel sets for it.

We primarily use McGowen barrels; we have them custom turn them to our specs. This is all done to save us the time of doing it ourselves. If we get one in we dont like we can further turn it down on our small CNC mill with cnc lathe attachment.

Here is a solution to your government problem; have Mr Bradshaw find, or have made, barrels with a .4995 (12.69mm) bore diameter, and call it and mark it, a wildcat, .499 NE. How can they possibly reject that? Of course it will still chamber and fire 500 NE ammo. Then your govt can't say it is above the magical .50 caliber bore.

I thought of that. .499 HE was the closest i could find... I tried reasoning with the woman (non hunter and shooter) handling my case by quoting energy of calibers she would allow (.460 weatherby etc) compared to .500ne. Theat is the problem with socialist beurocracy, ignorant people get to understand rules and laws in their ignorant manner and there is not much to do about it. Our right to own guns is not as rooted in personal liberty as yours in the US. It has its origin in the connection with the rifle shooting union with the military and civil/last line defence of the country. Every day I am increasingly becoming a liberalist... Anyway, I am just as happy with the current plan:


- .450 NE 3 1/4 (regulated with Hornady)
- Weight 10.5-11 pouns
- Droplock action, purdey underbites, C top
fastner (no dolls head, but extension of the
rib)
- Bolstered action (probably)
- Extended top and bottom tang
- Shoe lump barrels
- 26-28 inch barrels (I let BB decide)
- Case color hardening
- Added engraving (moderate ammount)
- Exhibition grade wood (bought from Larry)
- Extra set of locks (probably)

From how Bradshaw describes the construction and how he will do the metal work, this will be one really tough gun...

Aron, thanks. I thought it was too much of a faithful reproduction to be true. Are you able to post pics of one of your droplocks?

dpcd, 500NE is .510" diameter
but I know you know this.

Rhodes

Does B. Bradshaw's Drop-Lock include Intercepting Sears ?

No need for intercepting sears if everything is well fitted he wrote me. I have to agree...

They do not have intercepting sears, the WR locks we have also dont have any. We have discussed machining a secondary safety notch on the hammers that would act to stop the hammer if the trigger was not pulled; much like what is on revolvers.

I said bore diameter, I did not mention groove diameter or bullet diameter. GROOVE diameter of the 500 NE is .510 but the cartridge nomenclature in both English and metric measurements is for the BORE diameter of .500, or 12.7MM, as is many cartridges we use. So the groove (or bullet) diameter in this case is not relevant.
What I was suggesting was to create a wildcat with a bore, and cartridge nomenclature, of less than .500 so his government people might approve it.
Many cartridges, and most NE cartridges' names are based on the BORE diameter, not the bullet or groove diameter.

Yes I'm aware of bore/groove diameter and the way the British named their cartridges. I think you are clutching at straws though. Perhaps we should ask Norsk if his gov't regulations use bullet diameter or barrel groove diameter. I think you will find they use bullet diameter.

I'm happy to stand corrected though.

Rhodes

They use the bore diameter if they use 12.7mm as their decision point; that is what I was going on since Norsk mentioned the range restriction of 12.7mm. Which is .500.

Interesting idea Aron!

Actually the rules refer to "12,7" since that is what we call 50 bmg here. The beurocrats misuse the label 12,7 because they think there is no need for a hunting rifle in that cal. Obviously the 50 bmg restriction is meant to regulate military use of civilian ranges (so they dont shooters it up with heavy artillery. It was never intended to disallow 500-700 ne etc. ..Thats what you get when giving power to government and trusting it to be sensible...

As I suspected; your rules go by bore diameter, not groove or bullet diameter, as does ours in the US.
I assumed that was what your law was trying to ban; we have the same laws in the US; anything over .50 caliber is classified as a destructive device. (sporting cartridges are exempt). Here is what the law says:
"... the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter (.50 inches or 12.7mm), except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes..."
We use the bore diameter of .50, whereas the actual groove and bullet diameter for a .50 BMG is .510, making it a 51 caliber. Never trust anyone from the Government to actually know anything. I know; I worked for them for many years.
Oh, I am not Araon.

quote:

They do not have intercepting sears, the WR locks we have also dont have any. We have discussed machining a secondary safety notch on the hammers that would act to stop the hammer if the trigger was not pulled; much like what is on revolvers.

I meant with regards to this

Well there you go, one for the trivia files. It's a shame bureaucracy has triumphed over good once again Norsk and tempered your dream double choices.

450 3"1/4 NE, droplock does have a nice ring to it though.....

Cheers
Rhodes

I think it does Also, unlike the 470 i previously owned, I believe the 450 can be loaded with normal burn rate powders like rl 15 without using fillers.

The only option I am left thinking about now is if I should get the gun with an enjector or not...

Right; I do not use any fillers with my 450 NE; I use RL15, and 4350, which fill up the case, mostly, and with 4831, fills it up fully. I, personally, have no use for ejectors. The only thing I do not like about my Chapuis is the extremely vigorous ejection; I forgot about them and at the range last week, almost hit a lady who was sitting 10 yards behind the line. It shoots brass almost as far as it shoots bullets. It is a pain to alter your shooting regimen to catch brass; a dangerous habit when confronting DG in the field. I, like John Taylor, prefer extractors.

I think in the long run, you will be happier with the 450 3 1/4".

For practice and for smaller game like deer, moose, and bear, etc. you can use the Hornady 350gr bullet with the same powder charge as the 480/500gr bullets, my 75% rule, and they should regulate to the sights, and kick less.

Norsk, I have a .475 x 3 1/4 NE double...it has the same case as the .450, I load 94 grains of Norma N4 and the rifle regulates at 50 metres..

Nice!

Back to ejectors (wr type), would it be worth a price increase of a little over 1k to you guys? I think i am familiar with the theories pro and con.

After corresponding with Bradshaw I decided to go with extractors, extra locks (duplicates), extra engraving for 1k and case color hardening.

Been reeding a lot abot ejector vs extactor and it seems it mainly is a matter of taste and maybe in very special circumstances fractions of a second. I bet extractors are more reliable (less parts that can break) and this goes well with my concept of droplock with duplicates for a super reliable rifle...

Congrats on placing your order, hopefully it will be fast 18 months.
I use to load RL15 and a filler but have switched to H4831 and no filler behind 480 and 350gr bullets. Also have a IMR 3031 load with filler that I got from George Caswell that exits the gun about 1900fps. As 450 No2 pointed out the POI is about the same less recoil maybe a bit snappier.
I have also been using Trail Boss and either cast bullets or Hornady's 350gr RN with great success and lots of fun.
If you need some reloading ideas PM me or look up some of "Jorge" posts about his experiences with his 450.

Thank you. I got a quote on around 18 months. He has a lot of work and is unwilling to compromize quality... Now if someone could just put me in an induced coma for 18 months..!!..

By the way. I asked for regulating to 100 yards and Bayley told me they regulate all the doubles out to 230 yards (steel target). My K-Guns have crossed at 80 yards with factory ammo... Carefully regulating guns to shoot paralell that far says a lot about his craftsmanship and attention to detail!

By the way, the action will not have a dolls head extention (top lock) but instead a straight extention of the rib. I have not asked Bailey why he does not do the dolls head, any ideas?

Because they are hard to fit and are a useless addition; not needed at all with our modern steels. Back when frames were made from wrought iron and barrels were made from low carbon steel (at best and Damascus steel and wrought iron at worst) doll's head extensions might have been needed. But not now.

Like your choice of longer barrels, my Gibbs has 28" barrels, the gun handles like a shotgun. Would I get 28" barrels again maybe but would probably end up with 26" certainly no shorter.(that last sentence may open a can of worms) I spend 40 days in the fall chasing Ruffed Grouse and American Woodcock carrying a shotgun with 30" barrels in cover that makes the Jess in the Zambezi Valley look tame and have never had a problem with longer barrels. then again birds don't hit back.
Find Bayley's choice of regulating the barrels out to 230 interesting. At somewhat standard my Gibbs standing leaf is regulated to 50 yrds and the two folding leafs to 100 and 200 I have shot the gun on steel successfully at 100 and 200 using the folding leafs but have never put the gun on paper past 100. It would be interesting to see where the bullets impact at that distance but one could probably calculate their impact using MOA. Conversely it would be interesting to know where his guns impact at 50 if they are regulated to 230.
Conversations like these should help to make the 18monts go by quicker..

Baily regulates his rifles to shoot spread-of-bore at 50yds. Afterwards we shoot at a steel target 230yds downrange to verify all is well...but mainly just because its fun.

Sorry I missed that distinction, impressive nevertheless!

quote:

.but mainly just because its fun.

Got a mail from Bailey that he has started amasing the parts, machined the lock plates etc

Everything has been decided upon except for barel length

- 450NE
- Droplock action (bolstered), purdey
underbites, C top fastner
- WR style Ejectors
- Extended top and bottom tang
- Shoe lump barrels
- Case color hardening
- Extra set of locks

For some reason I am thinking about 28 inch barrels? Is this not the traditional lenght on the first NE double rifles? Also should I expect around 80-90 fps increase compared to 24 inch barrels?

You will love it!!.

BTW regarding Norway and .500cal guns. I know one can shoot blackpowder in .500cal. What would have happen if Bradshaw had made you one in 3" .500 Blackpowder Express?.

Hmmm... 500bpe that say....by chance could shoot 500ne?!

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
Hmmm... 500bpe that say....by chance could shoot 500ne?!

It is the same chamber.

475# 2 Jeffery. A 500 grain .488 caliber bullet. What a sweet round! Elephant kill'n SOB!