Good grief, Sam, that had to have been one very dead-on-her-feet doe!

Bill,
Actually no I missed the spine but a petal from the non con split a vertabrae and knocked it down. I did also put a finisher through the shoulders.

Sam

GOB,

Thanks and yes its me!

Sam

Sam,
In which thread do you discuss your peep sight?

Jim,

Page 2 of Sabatti Haters.

Sam

wow 500NE on a doe. And I thought I was silly for using my .50 Kodiak ML on a Raccoon. LOL

Nice. What was the exit wound like?

Exit wound is the one you see in photo. Also on Terminals I posted the finishing shot photo thru shoulders.

Hello,

I was in the gun library in SD.
They had 4 deluxes.
3 were not touched at the muzzles, one was.
I was in a hurry so I could not look at the targets.
The staff member I talked to said they demanded Sabatti fix the problem.
I take that with a grain of salt.
Time will tell.

Nitro

It would seem to me that if Cabalas were TRULY concerned with the problem of ground muzzles, they would not have any gun exhibiting this problem on display, in any of their stores.

I guess my biggest problem with these Sabbtti threads is guys saying that is "all they can afford and still make it to Africa".

That is bull butter! If that were the case then why not take a 1,000 dollar 375 or 458 winne safari--and kill a elephant and buffalo and and put the other 4,500 toward trophy fees. If you can swing a 5.5K "cheap" double then you can swing a 8K-10K double on a 15K to 50K safari(think about it 25K safari--and worried about 5K to 8K) --people are just making excuses! Like I said in a early post its not my money. I would rather spend money once and have a chance to get it back, eventhough it might cost a little more up front.

I have a uncle that is "loaded"--he has guns from Westley Richards, H&H, Purdy, FAMARS,Potti, AYA and others. Some of those are awesome, but a good Searcy is ever bit as good to shoot stuff-- and its made in America! -all I'm saying there are options that are good doubles but they all cost a little more than 5.5K... I used to think that one could produce a double for under 6K but with the economies the way they are today I don't think so, there is too much time involved--and time is money.

Sorry guys just a rant, as a salesman at heart I see a sub-par product on the market and feel guys have to talk themselves into it, when if you shop around there are better guns out there!

Man I feel better-- being a attorney and salesman--sometimes I have a internal battle you cannot believe!!!!

Dear 505Ed:

As a formerly practicing lawyer and having been a salesman since age 8, I can feel your pain.

Now, I'm getting some interesting feedback via PM from actual Sabatti owners, one, of whom has torn the entire rifle down, and is impressed with its design, steel quality and machining.

I'm off to Hamburg, Pennsylvania Cabelas today to compare and contrast a Sabatti and a Merkel.

Maybe that $5,000-5,500 price point is accessible with a clean, functional double rifle. I'll find out. It not, the Merkel at $14,000-15,000 maybe the better alternative.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
I'm off to Hamburg, Pennsylvania Cabelas today to compare and contrast a Sabatti and a Merkel.

Maybe that $5,000-5,500 price point is accessible with a clean, functional double rifle. I'll find out. It not, the Merkel at $14,000-15,000 maybe the better alternative.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I was there yesterday and took a look. I'll be interested in your impressions of both.

Yale, I'll add my .02 cents if you don't mind another opinion.

I also looked at the Sabatti in 450/400. I wanted a knock around gun that my two boys could shoot when I take them with me to Africa, but something I would hunt with also and not feel bad about banging up. I've gone back and forth on the issue with the Sabatti numerous times but each time I take a serious look at them, there is just too much I don't like. The comb is too high for me to get my eyes onto the sights (can be fixed), triggers are crap (maybe can be fixed), front sight looks like something out of a cracker jack box (can be fixed), and so on and so on. But I shouldn't have to fix things like that on a new gun. Ask yourself, if it wasn't a double, but rather a nice bolt action rifle for $5,500, would you buy it knowing that you would have to replace the recoil pad, front sight, shape the stock, etc? I wouldn't. The only reason we contemplate it is that it's a double, but it is still just a gun and should be right for that price!

Add all of that on top of the fact that you are taking a crap shoot on whether or not it will shoot properly. Most of the guys I hear that are reporting no regulation problems are still saying that regulation is OK at best.

I agonized for a couple of years over my first double. Have only had 2 by the way so I'm not the expert that others here are. I didn't want to pay for the next higher step into Heym so I focused my attention on Merkel, Chapius, and Kreighoff. I would have preferred the K gun because of the cocking device but never found one that fit me properly. I now have both the Merkel and Chapius and both are excellent, especially for what you pay. They are not as refined as the Heym or VC, but dollar for feature, I think they are hard to beat.

My Merkel is a 500NE with extractors. With about 5 minutes of training and practice, you can get the empties out of an extractor gun just as quickly as an ejector gun, so that is a non-issue. The metal to metal fit and finish is great. The engravers at Merkel don't do so well with animal scenes so the Rhino on the right side is a bit cartoonish but that is the only real negative I have about the rifle. It shoots extremely well and fits well. The drop at the comb probably does transfer recoil a bit sharper than a straighter stock, but I can throw the rifle up with my eyes closed, open my eyes and be dead on with the front sight nestled into the shallow V everytime. Point and shoot.


I've gone on longer here than intended as ultimately it is your money and choice, but my recommendation would be to go for the Merkel over the Sabatti, if your finances allow. Whether or not you realize it, you are at a fun point in selecting a rifle. Your first double!! Congrats to you! Whatever you choose, I hope you get a good one that brings you much enjoyment.

Here is a question:

What if you could go to the Sabatti factory and shoot a gun before you bought it. If you could make it print it's regulation target out of the box, would you buy it??

I live on this side of the pond and Italy is not that far away. Heck, I bet I could get one a fair bit cheaper at the factory than at Cabela's! Would a 450/400 with no muzzle grinding, printed where it was supposed to and cost between say, 3K and 4K be worth it??

I think that if you look on U tube you will find a rather nice video of manufacturing the Sabatti Double Rifle. If you reside in or near London, I do believe if you go to William & Son a new London Gunmaking firm manufactures an excellent Double Rifle based on the Sabatti.

Have never contacted Sabatti as I do not speak Italian but plan on going with friends who do and hopefully shapp pick up a few actions in the white.

Cheers,

Glenn

If you could get one for a good price I think it would be a great deal.

Doubleriflejack stated that the barrels are soft soldered and that he had re-regulated one or two. Before reading his post, I had believed that they were silver soldered.

If you could pick up a rifle that had not been muzzle round for a price that would make it economically feasible to pay someone to regulate it, then I'd say go for it.

I wish that Sabatti would make a .375 flanged in the same weight as their .450/400. I'd also like to see a Deluxe small frame rifle in 7x57R or 8x57R.

MACD: Again, I can assure you, and everyone else reading this post, that Sabatti uses standard, normal, lower temperature soft solder to regulate their doubles, soldering in the regulation wedges and the ribs, etc. This practice, and the solder too, is same or much the same as seen on many traditional doubles, and the solder is of approx. the same melting point as solder on numerous traditional double rifles I have worked on through the years, British, German, Belgium, etc. Sabatti certainly DID NOT use silver solder on ones I took apart; the person who started that rumor that they are silver soldered, or worse yet, brazed together, obviously has ulterior motives, or spoke without knowing the facts.

I e-mail the Sabatti factory a few time and ever got a reply,also had Cabela's contact them and they ever got a reply.Now when you carry a product and you cannot get a reply what does this tell you,i like their rifles for Deer and Hogs, so can anyone tell me what the matter with this company? And last i heard that EAA was going to take take them back this year.

Many times the foriegn companys don't bother to reply unless it's in their native language. Did you at least try am attempt at Italian?
Google has a fairly good translator that's easy to use.

I have visited Sabattis boot at the IWA show serveral tmes during the years. The only guy at the boot that are close to speak english is the owner Mr. Sabatti himself.

But he is usually busy making deals with Germans in German so to say.

big will: What I am going to say isn't an attempt to make excuses for Sabatti; I am only trying to tell you the facts. I have a friend in Italy, who told me that he in the past had visited Sabatti and many of the other gunmakers in the area where they practice. He said that Sabatti, and most of the other Italian makers, practice the trade in the extreme Northern part of Italy, in the famous valley most people are familiar with. He said that the gun makers there, and a lot of the other people there too, live somewhat an isolated life, apart from the modern world of computers/internet, cell phones, etc., and most speak only Italian as well. As a result, he said that they are not too astute at answering emails, communicating on the world wide scene, etc.

You are absolutely correct, the Gardone area of Italy is quite lovely and sadly there is not a lot of English there. The simple way to present the questions to the folks there is to either have someone bi-lingual (fluently) go there and speak with Mr. Sabatti. You certainly cannot expect them to fluently speak English, it is their Country. Sadly I read that Cabellas are wonderful and take the guns back which have a problem but conversely it seems from what others report they then turn the guns around without making repairs and sell them again. That sadely does not really seem too peachy to me. They just keep selling the rifles until some poor chap does not know and gets stuffed. IF repeat IF this is true that absolutely is not the proper way to do business in my opinion.

Just a thought,

Glenn