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I have recently bought a 1911 Frederick Beesley 450/400 3 1/4 inch double.
I have confirmed the history with London Guns who hold the Beesley records.

The double shoots 1 1/2 inch eyes at 50 yards with Woodleigh loads made up for me by WR here in Germany.
The action is tight. The barrels bright.

The woodwork is heavily scarred, gauged and scratched and the checkering worn almost smooth. The stock is finished with an ugly brown German made recoil pad. The barrels are in 80 % blue and not pitted at all.

I have a new silvers pad that I am going to put on.

Now my question .... Would you re do the checkering and would you reblue the barrels ? Or would you leave her to tell her stories as she is ?

I plan on taking the rifle to Zambia in November this year so still have time to undertake some restoration work.

Thoughts and opinions really welcome !!

Thanks

Charlie

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Don’t see why not.

Lots of guns and rifles were refurbished, either by the OEM or someone else.

Guns particularly seemed to be refurbished quite regularly due to heavy use.

I like older guns with personality. If you shoot it well as is, let her be. Might have to go Davy Crockett on this next hunt anyway!

I have more than a few English guns, shotguns and rifles, that over the years stocks have been refinished, checkering re-cut and metal re blackened.
I feel that I am a temporary custodian and it is my job to not only enjoy and hunt the guns but to maintain and pass them on in better shape than I found them.

Barrels on a DR need to be "Rust Blued" not Hot blued,

The restoration and engraving of English guns and rifles has been my retired career, and it sounds like your Beesley needs some help, at least with the woodwork. However, the installation of a new Silvers recoil pad is not what I would recommend, if the DR really needs a recoil pad to soften the feel of the recoil. On all guns and rifles that I restore that need a recoil pad, I install a leather covered Pachmyar Decelerator recoil pad. For those of us in the trade of working and building English guns and rifles, we are fond of saying that the reason Silvers recoil pads are "brick" coloured is that the are as hard as a brick and soften recoil no more than if you were using a brick as a recoil pad. (We like to use them to cover with leather as they are easy to use for this method)

As to the re-blacking of the barrels, if they have enough blacking on them to where they are serviceable, I would not have anything done to them until after your trip to Africa. I lived and worked in Africa more than 20 years ago and learned that the bush is hard on gun and rifle finish--barrels being the most likely to receive abrasion.

Lastly, is your Beesley a side lock or a box lock? If it is a side lock Beesley, especially if it is a side lock ejector (SLE) Beesley with the side lock types (self-opening) that he invented and sold the patent rights to Purdey, you are a lucky person.

Kindest Regards;
Steve

Charlie64
Regardless of what you end up doing to your new DR you at least owe us a couple of Photos..
Thanks

another vote for photos. thx.

I'd say that the barrels only need re-blacking when they fail to do their true job. Which is stopping them from getting rusty. If there's enough blue on them to achieve that goal leave that for another year.

All of these renovations remove material from the guns which, to properly re-black out to be struck off and repolished to do the job 100% properly.

Rechequering is a different kettle of fish. The problem is that yes if it needs doing do it. But also be aware that if done and done again and done again (or if done by unskilled hands) it can, does, and will thin the wrist of your rifle.

I'd disgaree on the pad thing. I have never liked a leather covered pad on any gun. A Silver's is good enough. And then "paint" it with shellac to make it slick so that it cmes up to the shoulder.

There's a discussion about whether the London trade used red Silver's pads or orange Silver's pads. But I forget what exactly it was or if it ever was more than just coincidence!

But in either case, red or orange, that black spacer is mandatory...LOL!

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Thank you all v much for comments and ideas / opinions. I am taking it all in.

Photos are the easy part and I will get some up in the next few days.....
along with more details. In brief she is a 1911 boxlock ejector and sold in mid 1911 for GBP 36/- ( and more on that later).

Does anyone on here have a Beesley DR ?

Watch this space for pictures and again thanks for the ideas / opinions and comments! Appreciated and keep em coming !!

Charlie

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Beesley rifles are comparatively rare. With your rifle being a boxlock it would be interesting to see if it is made on a Webley action. Many of the London makers bought in Webley-made double rifles and simply finished them (if that much) and resold them under their own name.

If it was my rifle I would have it restored. Find someone who can do flat-top chequering and have the wood restored to its former glory. I would also have the barrels and furniture reblacked.

After all that you can get to work on scarring the old rifle up again with your own memories.

The British refinished their guns, why not you.

Dave

Just think of a 100year old house that doesn't get a check-up once awhile?.

My later father's gun, bought for him in 1919 when he was twelve years old has been re-stocked for me and the barrels at one time sleeved. Then later re-blacked. So whilst some will have a hissy fit about the thing no longer being original if it were original it would no longer be usuable!

I have just bought a used 470NE VC and it should be in my hands in a week.

If that 1911 Frederick Beesley 450/400 3 1/4 inch rifle was mine, I would first make sure it works well and see how it fits me and how I shoot with it. That is a perfect caliber & an ideal one IMHO.

If the wood is really looking tired, I would take the ugly pad off, sand the stock after taping up the checkering and see if I can get the basic wood to look its best, give it a few coats of oil finish or Truoil and see it the wood makes my heart flutter! The old English guns had some simple Walnut that still looked classy.

If all this makes the rifle look nice, I would get it rechecked and take it to Africa. I would not bother spending $2000 doing up a rifle like that unless it was going to increase in value considerable.

If the stock is too far gone, I would restock it to fit me and then I would also re-blacken the rifle.

I look forward to seeing some photos.

If its mechanically sound leave it be.

It won't hurt a thing on double rifles, that's acceptable in the doublel rifle and African/English bolt guns as well.

So it boils down to personal choice..

I like to shoot them in original condition and a gun like yours need not be petted and groomed like a Pershing cat. If tight and it shoots I would leave it as is, such guns deserve respect and every mark tells a story..but to each his own.

Before you go spending money on making your gun prettier, consider my experience. I bought a 1920s Verney Carron 16 GA sidelock double shotgun with two barrels in the eighties. I used that gun for 15 years for pheasant, grouse, small game, and even shot a deer using buckshot. I was so happy with it that I had it completely restored with new CC, bluing, wood refinish, by MV Highsmith, one of the best. After that I was so scared of damaging it that I used it less and less and eventually sold it off because it was too new looking. Now I have two left hand bespoke VCs that I am trying my best to wear out and I'll never refinish them. I hope that my left handed grandson doesn't either.

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All good and great feedback and comments. Thank you all.

Have put on a new recoil paid, swapped out a couple of non original screws, given her strip down and total clean and that's it for now.

Taking her to Zambia in November and will post the story behind this gun after that trip. Looking at hippo and pigs to get her going again!

Cheers

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Photos please. PM me and I'll post them for you if you want

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Naki, Thanks for the offer. I can and do regularly post photos. Some on the European Hunting thread at the moment of a recent stag hunt in Scotland. The 450/400 is in Germany at the moment and I am in West Africa, so photos will have to wait until Novembervand Zambia. But I promise pictures and a decent story then ! Cheers

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quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

I have recently bought a 1911 Frederick Beesley 450/400 3 1/4 inch double.
I have confirmed the history with London Guns who hold the Beesley records.

The double shoots 1 1/2 inch eyes at 50 yards with Woodleigh loads made up for me by WR here in Germany.
The action is tight. The barrels bright.

The woodwork is heavily scarred, gauged and scratched and the checkering worn almost smooth. The stock is finished with an ugly brown German made recoil pad. The barrels are in 80 % blue and not pitted at all.

I have a new silvers pad that I am going to put on.

Now my question .... Would you re do the checkering and would you reblue the barrels ? Or would you leave her to tell her stories as she is ?

I plan on taking the rifle to Zambia in November this year so still have time to undertake some restoration work.

Thoughts and opinions really welcome !!

Thanks

Charlie

.

If you intend keeping the rifle then refurbish the rifle and go hunting!

Most all older double rifles where sent back to the maker every few years to be freshened all through the years by the original buyer.


It's your rifle so suit yourself!


……………………………………………………………...

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Y'al, I have not forgotten my promise of pictures.

In fact, the 450/400 Beesley is coming with me to Zambia on Saturday for 10 days! I am very excited about hunting with this new / old double!

Report and pictures to follow ASAP after the trip!

Cheers

.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

Y'al, I have not forgotten my promise of pictures.

In fact, the 450/400 Beesley is coming with me to Zambia on Saturday for 10 days! I am very excited about hunting with this new / old double!

Report and pictures to follow ASAP after the trip!

Cheers

.

…………………………………..Can't wait for the report! Zambia is my favorite place to hunt Africa!