Hello All,

I just acquired my second 450bpe, a very nice Army & Navy CSL. It came from Vintage Doubles. A good Guy shoutout; "This is my 7th purchase from Kirby, and I've never been disappointed."

(my other 450bpe is a WW Greener, purchased in October 2018 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...961063642#9961063642 )


This 450 had a very colorful advertising description;


"... This is a rather interesting rifle. I believe it was stocked and engraved in India at some point in its romantic past. One has to wonder how many Tigers fell to the terror of this weapon. Perhaps the reason it had to be restocked was a tiger charged and mounted the Howdah and with one swipe of its mighty striped gauntlet swept the ominous rifle aside where it fell to the rocks below. Probably not much left of the great hunter who was in the Howdah...." "... To my amazement this double rifle has London proofs and a very nice bore being fairly bright with strong rifling showing little wear..."


WOW ! ! .. All it needed was a Tiger's Tooth imprint in the original forend to make the story believable. There wasn't any.


Here are the specs;

Manufacturer: Army & Navy 450 BPE
Action: Hammer-less Box-lock w/ Rib Extension w/ Hidden 3rd Bite
Model: Engraved
Forend: Lever Release
Caliber: 450 3 1/4" BPE
Barrels: 27"
Barrel Type: Steel w/ Henry rifling
Sights: 2-Leaf Express
LOP: 14 1/2
Weight: 9 lbs. 1 oz.
Proof: London - Black 450EX

I always strive to obtain as much History as possible about my rifles. I found that the shipping records for Army & Navy CSL are retained by University of Glasgow. Inquiries to:

Archives & Special Collections
University of Glasgow
13 Thurso Street
Glasgow G11 6PE
archives@glasgow.ac.uk

An email inquiry resulted in this information: " ... purchased by Colonel Webster - 5th November 1885 for £12 25s ..."

This information was free, however a copy of the full entry in the sales registers costs £33.33 which will get you 2 photographs of the original Ledger entry - which I've requested and will post in the future. In the mean time I'm researching Colonel Webster.

Quite frankly, I was surprised to find that this rifle was made as early as 1885. I didn't think hammerless box-locks were made that early. But according to Wikipedia; "... The boxlock action was the result of a long evolution of hammerless actions, created by two gunsmiths, Anson and Deeley, working for the Westley-Richards company in 1875..."

Various features of this double's construction suggest it was manufactured by Webley.

Tomorrow I head for the range to test regulation. I'll be shooting 325g Flex-Tip bullets with 45g-48g of IMR4198. I expect a velocity of 1750fps. (this is the same load I used in the WW Greener) The English 450 bpe 3-1/4" cartridge, is on par with the U.S. 45-120 Sharps, a black powder Buffalo cartridge of the 1880s.


As always, your comments are welcome.

Bravo!

Are you sure there is not a tiger tooth mark on that forend?
Coulda swore I saw at least one.
Very nice distant relative of the .458 WIN.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:Are you sure there is not a tiger tooth mark on that forend? Coulda swore I saw at least one.
Rip ...

Hello RIP,

Thanks for the reply.

You know, you're right! There IS a tooth mark on the left side of the forend.

Looks like a Webley A&W-C screw grip.

Dave

I know for a fact my Indian 470 has been tiger hunting. Most likely elephant too in the 70 plus years it was in India. Cool stuff indeed found the sales ledger but not much else. Pretty fun little Game for sure. Looks like you are addicted!

I’ve seen guns like this before.
Very well was restocked in India but also likely engraved and gilded in India as well.
Sort of a rebirth of a standard grade rifle by adding some embellishments in the style that appeals to the Indian sportsman.
Should be quite enjoyable to use.

Nice, I gotta A&N 500 bpe. The most elegant gun I own and points like a finger.

Very nice rifle! I had a A&N double rifle a few years ago that would pass as a twin to this one. Only it was chambered for 450-400NE 3 " and I have always wished I had not sold that rifle. It was a tack driver with both barrels.

Congratulations on this find sir! looks like it has weathered the years well! I'm Jelous! Treasure it, it is a very nice rifle!

……………………………………………………….

Nice rifle.

If you can develop loads that regulate it is light enough to use on local hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
" ... Tomorrow I head for the range to test regulation. I'll be shooting 325g Flex-Tip bullets with 45g-48g of IMR4198. I expect a velocity of 1750fps. ... "

quote:

Originally posted by JFE:
Nice rifle.

If you can develop loads that regulate it is light enough to use on local hunts.

Hello JFE,

Thanks for the reply.

Well, its taken a while to work-up a load for this little Tiger Killer. I'm very pleased with the results. Under 2" average for the 4 pairs. I think I'll be able to do even better with some fine tuning. This one's now ready for Wisconsin White Tails this November.

You might want to give cast bullets a try. They really made a difference in my 450's....express and nitro express.

quote:

Originally posted by degoins:
You might want to give cast bullets a try. They really made a difference in my 450's....express and nitro express.

Hello degoins,

Thanks for the reply.

I already purchased a mold from www.accuratemolds.com for this rifle.

They have hundreds of molds posted on their web page to choose from. You can also design your own.

I had a 340g mold made for this 450bpe. Tom has very fast service. I ordered my mold on a Sunday, and received the mold on the following Thursday - that's 4 days. Cost was $82 delivered.

I've purchased many molds from Tom over the years and I highly recommend him.

Also, Tom's molds drop the bullet when the mold opens - no rapping to free the bullet from the mold.

WOW......that's some fast service!! Nice shape to that bullet. Good luck with it.

quote:

Originally posted by degoins:
WOW......that's some fast service!! Nice shape to that bullet. Good luck with it.

Hello degoins
Thanks for the reply.

That lead bullet turned out to be a flop. Not sure why, it just didn't seem to shoot very well no matter what I tried.

Its taken a while to continue load development with this rifle. Here's why. The rifle's bores measured .462 dia. and I felt I wasn't getting the best performance with the under-size .458 dia bullets. Since no one makes a .462 dia bullet, I contacted Dave Corbin of Corbin Mfg and ordered a custom swage die to "bump-up" .458 dia bullets to .462 dia. Dave was very accommodating, and 6 weeks later the custom swage die arrived.

I bumped-up the Hornady 325g Flex-Tip bullets to .462 and started with the same load of 53g of IMR4198 as I did earlier. I ended up with 53g and the average velocity increased by 125 fps to 1875 fps.

Needless to say, I'm very pleased with the results. First and second pairs shot a bit left, so I made a sight adjustment between the pairs. Last pair are perfect.