After last weeks episode, I realized that I had to go back to square one, as using Winchester mag primers in place of CCI mags had resulted in some pressure signs and less than stellar accuracy! I went back to the 70.5 R-15 load with the Woodleigh 400 gr. soft, CCI 250, and 2.0 gr. of Dacron. Result? 6 shots into two inches at 50 yds with a fairly stiff crosswind. Not too bad, but all rounds went across the chrono averaging 1960 fps. This is a 60 gr. Cordite gun with 24" bbls, 450/400 3". I feel that this is a bit low, so next I will try some at 71.0 gr of R-15. I would like to get over 2000 fps, not trying to magnumize it, but I would like to get it near its designed potential. If I cannot, at least I have an accurate load to use, along the lines of the "Tropical" load. I also used 68.0 gr. R-15 as a start with the longer Woodleigh Solid. Rodda did not much care for this load, rewarding me with a composite group of around 3 1/2 inches at an average velocity of 1975 fps. Two grains less powder, same bullet weight, but obviously the longer bearing surface along with the greater friction from the mild steel jacket makes a large difference in pressure, which was expected. Next load to try, was 78.0 gr. Imr-4831, no dacron and the Solid. This group was very close to 3" and the velocity average was 1937 fps. I think it shows promise, so I will try some with 78.5 and see how it goes. I also tried the load that J.J. Perradeau used to test it, 80.0 gr. IMR-4831, Woodleigh soft, but the CCI primer instead of the Fed 215, no dacron in any 4831 loads. He shot a 3" group offhand at 30 yds, my results, from the bench at 50 yds.had the right barrel shooting 1-1/2 " but unfortunately, the left was 3" to the left of that group, but it was also about 1-1/2".Average velocity was 1927 fps. I might try increasing this load in 1/2 gr. increments to see if it comes togeather. I also tried four rounds of the 70.5 gr. R-15 load with the 300 gr. Hornady S.P. bullets that bobc graciously gave me. It was a small sampling, but showed promise with about 2-3/4 inch group, but amazingly at an average velocity of 2008. With the same load and a 400 gr. soft averaging 1960, I expected a larger increase in velocity for a 100 gr. difference in bullet weight, but I will have to play with these later as I need to get a good soft/solid combo figured out. My rifle has an abominable 7-1/2 lb, creepy front trigger, the rear being a pleasant 4 lbs, that breaks cleanly, so some trigger work is in the future and I think it will help my shooting quite a bit. I also purchased a new mill that will cut a 120* V, and will TIG weld up my old standing rear sight and recut it as it shoots about 5 inches low at 50 yds. When I opened up the V, (it was vey narrow) I inadvertantly hand cut the v deeper, so a little weld will create a fresh start to get this rifle printing dead on. I hope this info is helpful, if not, say so and I will shut up! Lee.

lee440,

Sounds like you have a promising gun there.

I found it very useful to take prepared Brass down to the range along with various powders, bullets, my reloading press,scale and powder hopper.

This allowed me to try many combinations at one sitting and really moved my experimenting along.

Not sure if your range allows that but if it does it sure helps.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

Jim

Lee, we love hearing about this. Keep up the reporsts. es

gal, I used to have a portable bench that fit into the back of my truck for just that use. I need to set up another one as this job may be more involved than I planned.
Doc, I am heeding your good advice, but the inveterate tinkerer in me wants to experiment.
With the wide spread in burning rates between R-15 to IMR-4831, I wonder if anyone has had any luck using one of the 4350 powders in the 450/400? Anyone know? Lee.
P.S. These damned Woodleigh bullets are getting expensive! I just ordered 200 more!

Lee,
The low velocity might be due to the 24" barrels.
As log as the groups are tight, that's all that matters. YOur 60 cord rifle will give you 55 cord velocities!

Rusty, only testing will tell, I am going for tight groups, but if I can get them with over 2000 and no pressure, I will be happier! It will just cost me a bit more money, but someone else may get some benefit out of this experimentation. By the way, I picked up a copy of The Hammerless Double Rifle by Alexander Grey at the Pasadena gun show of all places, interesting book, explains a lot about its construction. I just got through putting the Rodda back together after stoning the sear engagement surfaces, it feels better, and tommorow I will try a two step trigger treatment from Brownells to see if that improves it a bit more. Lee

I'll have to check my stats, but I was also surprised that the 300's were not much faster than the 400's with the same powder load. On the other hand, 2000 fps with the 300's will be work for pigs, deer, etc. Bob

I checked my records this am. 63 gr rl-15 & 400 Woodleigh gives me 1950 fps, same load with 300 Hornady gives 2074 fps. Not as much spread as I'd expect. Bob

Hi lee,
My guess is that that Old gal has killed about two train loads of animals. I would guess that you have some throat errosion that is acting like free bore and giving you very slightly reduced velocities. You will have even more with the short 300 grain hornaday. remember original ballistics were taken in long barrels, many times 30" long.
Shoot to kill, no warning shots.
es

Lee:

You've got too many variables in play here. As a result, you're not getting enough data from each range session to tell where you are. Work with the Woodleigh soft only until you have a load that regulates with it, then move on to the solids and the pig loads.

In one of the previous threads, you said "reasoning that if 70.5 was good and showed no pressure signs..." You can't use conventional pressure signs as a guide when you're loading for a double. By the time they appear, you've already eaten Fifi. The chronograph is the only window you have - that's why it's so important. That's also why you use Federal 215s - because they ARE soft. They'll give you a belated warning that harder cups won't.

For a starting load, 70.5 grains Reloder 15 with a 400 grain Woodleigh was not a good choice, but you got lucky. You either have a "lite" batch of RL 15, or throats that are showing their wear, or both. When I was at the range with BobC and Rusty several weeks ago, 67 grains RL 15 with 400 grain Woodleigh softs and Federal 215s gave an average of 2059 fps from my 26" barrels. Years ago I had a "lite" batch of RL 15 that I was able to get to 70.5 grains with, but have not been able to do it since.

Ignore composite group size for now. First you want to find a load that puts two rights in the same hole and two lefts in the same hole at something reasonably close to standard velocity as adjusted for barrel length (your barrels are 6" shorter than "standard"). If either barrel will do no better than 2" at 50, then 2" is the best the gun will do. In regard to the 6-shot 2" group you fired - are the individual barrel groups discernable? Are the barrels crossing or shooting wide? I suggest that you switch to F215s and work back up, loading four rounds each in 1 grain increments. Pay careful attention to velocity change and movement of the individual barrel groups as the charge is increased. Also, get 10 rounds of new Kynoch from Galazans' and shoot it for group over a chronograph to use as a benchmark.

I wouldn't have cut the sights until I had a load that regulated. Some British rifles are set up for a full hold (the bullet prints in the center of the bead) rather than 6 o'clock. With a load that regulates, you may find it shoots higher than you think.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."