For those of you fortunate enough to receive RIFLE magazine, Ganyana has an article in this month's edition about DR calibers, and calibers in general for hunting DG in Africa. One interesting point he brought up in a recent thread was regarding a DR's ability at a fast follow-up shot, and the affect that the caliber can have on that. It got me to thinking...in a close-quarters situation, does it make sense to drop down in caliber if it means enhancing the ability to more rapidly deliver an aimed second shot. It made me thing twice about my quest for a 577 NE...what good is a DR if you can't recover fast enough from the 1st shot to use the second barrel quickly....might as well use a bolt gun. Hmmmmm. Well, thanks Ganyana for a great article, and for screwing up my current thinking, big-time !!! Biebs

From personel experience, up through 470NE and there is no time lost to recoil recovery.From watching 500Grains on Buzz Charlton's first DVD, there is none lost with a the 500NE either.

Beyond that...? I would think that there may be sme lost time.

Sufficient practice will build recoil tolerance and reduce one's perception of felt recoil, but can't reduce the actual physical recoil from the biggest bores.

The recoil from my double rifle, a 10.5lbs 458wm shooting 500grs at 2145fps, is barely enough to confirm that the rifle has fired when there is a game animal in front of the sights. Much more when there is a paper target in front of the sights.

JPK

When I'm in the field I find that I am if anything too hasty with my second shot.

It could be said that a good belt to the shooter might cause him to settle down for the follow up shot.

Now were getting into double rifle psychology. "Woops", have I opend Pandoras box?

AK, yes, I'm waiting for the onslaught of comments...." Hey, if you hit him with a big enough caliber the first time, you don't need to worry about the second shot" !!!!

The Ganyana article is a good piece of work, and most anything he has to say on firearms for dangerous game in Africa can be taken to the bank, as legal tender.

I think, however, the fast second shot with a double rifle has more to do with the weight of the rifle, than recoil, at least to a point. Haveing said that, my opinion is that any double rifle larger than a well made and ballanced 577NE is just about as useless at tits on a tomcat, for in close fighting.

IMO, the fix for the slow second shot, and in fact the third and fourth shots from a double rifle depends more on the amount of practice the shooter is willing to put forth.

One example is Mike Jines shoots a 500NE Krieghoff double rifle, for the first two shots so fast that you would swear he was shooting a simi-auto. Not only does he shot that rifle fast, but also hits the target every time.

I have owned two different 577NE doubles, and my main problem with them was they were too damn heavy to carry all day in the African heat. I did not find them particularly fun to shoot either. That is my limitation, but doesn't necessarily apply to others.

I find my limit for good shooting to be a well made and properly ballanced 500NE double. Paul has a 577NE Searcy and he, and his father both shoot it well, and quickly as well, but they put in the practice to get good with it. I have a 470NE double that I can shoot pretty quickly, and re-charge for the third and fourth shots, but admittedly I do a lot better with a 450/400NE 3" double, or even my 9.3X74R double rifle, and wouldn't be any more worried about going into the weeds with either of these two than any other double for a follow-up on a buffalo, or cat. My best choice would be either a 450/400NE 3" or a 450NE 3 1/4" for such sittuations, however!

The one thing in that articles had nothing to do with the text, but has to do with one of the pictures there. The double rifle on page 76 showing a fine side lock .577NE double rifle with cartridges loaded with the old type Bronze mono-lithic bullets with no pressure rings to allow the engraved material a place to go. IMO, who ever owns that rifle is looking for a problem. Other than that I liked the article, as I do most everything Ganyana writes!

...............My opinion only, and not a rule of law for others!

...........................

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
From personel experience, up through 470NE and there is no time lost to recoil recovery.From watching 500Grains on Buzz Charlton's first DVD, there is none lost with a the 500NE either.

JPK

Ditto's John, my findings also. I can shoot my 500N.E. in a Heym as fast as I could shoot my 500/416 in a Heym.

I dunno, does he take things out of context in it as well? You guys need to read the PM Harry Selby sent Saeed about Ganyana's reference to the bolt VS double situation with Ruark. I think he likes to stir the pot more than just a little on occasion.

Rich

Stir the pot? Doesn't that make him the perfect (and typical) AR contributor????

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
For those of you fortunate enough to receive RIFLE magazine, Ganyana has an article in this month's edition about DR calibers, and calibers in general for hunting DG in Africa. One interesting point he brought up in a recent thread was regarding a DR's ability at a fast follow-up shot, and the affect that the caliber can have on that. It got me to thinking...in a close-quarters situation, does it make sense to drop down in caliber if it means enhancing the ability to more rapidly deliver an aimed second shot. It made me thing twice about my quest for a 577 NE...what good is a DR if you can't recover fast enough from the 1st shot to use the second barrel quickly....might as well use a bolt gun. Hmmmmm. Well, thanks Ganyana for a great article, and for screwing up my current thinking, big-time !!! Biebs

There really is no problem firing a .577 second shot quick.

Bison with Demas .577

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
When I'm in the field I find that I am if anything too hasty with my second shot.

It could be said that a good belt to the shooter might cause him to settle down for the follow up shot.

Now were getting into double rifle psychology. "Woops", have I opend Pandoras box?

I'd think less recoil would give you extra time to take aim and shoot if you have the presence of mind rather than hurriedly taking a second shot because the animal is departing when coming out of recoil. Regardless it seems like presence of mind is more important.

Brett

Recoil is important to follow up shots and I enjoy reading Ganyana's posts and often learn from them.
But even more important (at least to me) is excessive muzzle lift. Case in point was my Rem 375 H&H from their custom shop. The rifle weighed under 7 1/2 pounds scoped and everytime it was used to shoot a big critter the lift was so severe I lost the animals hit for a few seconds.
When in Zim and tasked to shot some warthogs for bait (don't ya just hate it) I hit one and the rifle kicked up, worked the bolt and brought it back down only to see the damn thing still standing. So I hit it again. About 10 seconds later the PH said, "Nice shooting! We didnt need both but they sure will come in handy". Added a brake to it upon returning to the states to calm it down.
If you can't bring the rifle back in play really fast for that second shot something will go wrong.

quote:

"Nice shooting! We didnt need both but they sure will come in handy".