I have some Jamieson brass that I started loading and was wondering if they will shoot same POI with my Hornady brass.I will go and shoot using them but just curious.

I am shooting a 470NE,both brands of brass shoot the same,I have not checked the case capacity of either,because I am using foam filler in my loads which leaves airspace,if I was using a slower powder & no airspace,then I would check case capacities & if not the same I bet the POI might be differernt.

When shooting an open sighted double rifle, no one, and I mean no one can judge a target based on the maker of the brass.
Cal

I will check case volume to compare.The Jamieson seems like thicker brass.

Go ahead, ignore the experts like always Shoot! Cal probably knows nothing of this eh?

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
Go ahead, ignore the experts like always Shoot! Cal probably knows nothing of this eh?

So are you the expert determining who is an expert?
Just showed up to take a leak on my thread-eh?

No, I did!

Oh My!

No is your answer.

The brass is doubles is not the big issue. Bullets, case volume, powder choices, etc. are all big factors. Case manufacturer does not make the list in my book.

Matt

For what it's worth, Jamison and Hornady brass shoot the same in my VC500. Barnes brass is thinner and shorter and I can tell a difference off the bench with it. When I chronographed loads I was working up, there was no real difference in velocity between the Hornady and Jamison.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
Go ahead, ignore the experts like always Shoot! Cal probably knows nothing of this eh?

So are you the expert determining who is an expert?
Just showed up to take a leak on my thread-eh?

George:
No one is trying to leak on your thread. Think about it. There are so many variables to shooting, and even more in open sighted doubles, it is impossible to compare target groups between brass case makers--even if the brass is a bit thinner or thicker and internal volume differs. If one could to this, then when we shoot our doubles (even trashy ones like I own) we would have targets that were consistently the same group size and patterns (L1 R1, L2 R2, etc.). Since the consistency varies so much, how can one tell if it is the brass? To illustrate, the best shooting double I have is a Lang .450 no2 which will shoot about 2" groups at 50 yards all day. That said, the bullet patterns are never the same. Some of the difference is my shooting and some is the double rifle regulation and barrel convergence.

If I change bullet style, diameter, velocity, etc., the groups do change as to size. That is expected in a double when one varies from the regulated load. But keep within the regulated load and just change the brass, I don't see how one can tell the difference. It is easier to do this in a single barrel as there are less variables. With twin tubes, I guess next to impossible.

But, what do I know?
Cheers, my Canadian mate.
Cal

I believe Hornady brass is formed using heat and Jamison is cold drawn, so it is unlikely that they'll shoot to the sam POI....at least for you.

Case volume
Brass thickness and therefore neck tension
Are all variables that affect shooting

But i agree with Cal
Shooting from one day to another with a double
Or any gun you will have variation

Hell humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, direct sunlight will affect a double or any gun from one day to the next

If you get buff MOA with both brass be happy
Remember these are sledge hammers not scalpels

Nitro

I have had two types of new brass shoot to very different POI's.This was using a bolt rifle but I do not see how a double would be different in this case.One brand shot one inch at two hundred and the other would spray a foot or more apart at 100.I could not believe this and since then I believe that even the smallest of differences in our components can make a huge difference.The original question should have been addressed to people who have used both brands of brass.

In a bolt action it is very possible there will be less accuracy. I would not be comparing your reloading efforts in your double to a bolt gun. Apples and oranges is what comes to mind.

You should try an experiment- same load: powder, bullet, primer, etc. make sure cases are same length. Put 5 of each brass (complete reloads ready to fire) into a sack, reach in and pull them out without looking at the head stamp and shoot some groups at 25-50 meters.

Lay the brass in order on the ground or bench until you finish. keep track of your shot order on the target. Look at your target, then determine which brass was used and if there is a difference in groups.

This should be a great proof as you are an empirical Canadian George. I doubt there will be variation unless you have inconsistencies in your reloading efforts.


Matt

My Krieghoff shoots same size groups with Federal Nickle brass, Jamieson and Norma.
As far a different brass goes you cant get much different than these 3.

Nitro

Here is a novel idea for you; load some up and find out.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I have had two types of new brass shoot to very different POI's.This was using a bolt rifle but I do not see how a double would be different in this case.One brand shot one inch at two hundred and the other would spray a foot or more apart at 100.I could not believe this and since then I believe that even the smallest of differences in our components can make a huge difference.The original question should have been addressed to people who have used both brands of brass.

OK George. I pitch up.

I've fired TSX, Barnes Banded Solids, CEB BBW#!3 Solids, CEB Non-Cons, and Northfork solids out of my Merkel 500NE and VC 500NE using Jamison, Hornady, and A-Square brass. I've found absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in group accuracy or POI amongst all three different brass types while using the same bullets and loads.

That said, I've settled on Hornady brass exclusively at this point largely due to the pressure work Michael458 and SRose did with different brass types. They found that while using the same bullet and powder load, the Hornady brass produced less peak pressure consistently across several different calibers that were tested. IIRC, these pressure tests, and these are different than their barrel strain tests, were conducted primarily as an experiment in using lighter bullets at higher velocity. The point was to see how much of a velocity / energy gain could be achieved while still getting the rifle / load to shoot to regulation. In this regard, they were able to get more velocity before reaching their stated max pressure of 45,000psi while using the Hornady brass.

I think that data is on the Double Rifle Bullet of the Future thread but I'm not sure. You might try to dig it up there. If not, I have it printed off here at the house somewhere and if I can find it, I'll post it for comparison if Michael gives me permission to do so. I remember they were somewhat reluctant to offer up loads proclaimed as being "safe" on a public forum as it is always required to work up to what is safe in your specific rifle. But as an example, instead of the standard 570gr bullet at 2100fps, I've got the 470gr CEBs shooting to regulation at 2400fps using Hornady brass in my VC. With Jamison Brass, their data showed max pressure was reached at closer to 2200fps with this same bullet type and weight.

What you are not taking into account however, and I think this is what most here are trying to tell you, is that deviations in velocity and or pressure alone as caused by different brass, which can greatly affect accuracy in a single barreled gun (especially at longer ranges), doesn't translate directly the same when speaking of big bore double rifles. Compared to a single barreled rifle, there are so many more variables involved in regulation of two barrels soldered together and getting a load to shoot to that regulation. Often, changing one variable will cancel out, or exacerbate, other variables affecting the recoil arch, such as bullet time in the barrel, amount of recoil, velocity of recoil, etc.

As long as your big bore double rifle shoots both barrels within an inch or two of each other consistently at 25 to 50 yards, you're in good shape for taking it afield in search of DG. A half inch deviation here or there at those ranges with these type of guns, when trying to get two different barrels to shoot to nearly the same POI, just isn't important, nor is it consistently measurable.

It is good to know that POI was the same with all types of brass in your rifle,Todd-thanks! I just unloaded all of the moly rounds I had and now I have enough Hornady cases to load a few rounds and keep ready for a hunt.Rounds loaded with Hornady cases fit better in my chambers than those loaded with Jamieson cases.