Hello Folks,

I've got a possible deal going on a William Evans Underlever Double Rifle in 500 bpe.

I've got to make a "Full Retail" offer on this Estate rifle - NOT a bargain price offer. I've got to come up with something this weekend.

However, I don't know where to start. Couldn't find much on the internet, other than the address on the barrel was only used in 1883 and 1884.

Here is the description and all the details of the rifle. (best as I can tell)

William Evans - NO SERIAL NUMBER TO BE FOUND ANYWHERE - (only the Henry rifling numbers on the barrels)

Tight on face - Mint bores - no cracks or chips in the wood - overall unmolested condition - just normal aging
Full coverage Engraving
Underlever
500 - 3" BPE
28" Barrels
3-Leaf Express Sights
9# 5-1/2oz
14-1/2" LOP
Doll's Head
Fences
Rebounding Hammers
Barrels marked "Henry's Patent A&T 1275P - 1276P"
Forend hanger marked "JB"
Sling Eyes
Steel Butt Plate
Lever Forend Release
Top of Right bbl = "William Evans (From Purdey's)
Top of Left bbl = "95 Buckingham Palace Road London"
Both Locks marked "William Evans / From Purdey's"
bottom bbl flat = "39" "Crown/P" "Crown/V" "Crown/x"

I'll be adding picture shortly, but I would like to get a jump on requesting help in prices. Pictures are not as good as I'd like. They were taken with my phone asnd they turned out too dark. The rifle is actually much better than the pictures show, but you should get the idea.


















Thanks for any help ...

The case is modern or a modern refit. No need for snap cap holes in a hammer double. The case looks like the one size fits all sold by Conn. Shotgun. I hope I'm wrong as the CS cases are really low quality.

It's hard to tell the condition as some of the photos are dark. Doubles are a bit down now, especially in the plain bpe doubles. In today's market this rifle will sell for 5-7K USD. Again, that is rough as the pics are a bit rough.

If the bores are excellent, this one should make a fine shooter for you: 440-grain cast, probably sized to .510, and 55 grains of IMR 4198 will equal the nitro for black load. The 39 is the bore size as in shotgun gauges--39 round balls equal a pound.

Good luck.
Cal

Hello Cal,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, the case is modern and of average quality, and yes, the pictures are dark. Not much I could do at a gun show, with my camera at home, and only the phone to use. I couldn't even take it outside in the sunlight. Its actually much better than the pictures show, but I had to get some idea before the show ends.

I've not been able to find much info about Wm Evans Guns. Were they common "in the day"?

Also, I've never seen a Double rifle without a serial number. Have you seen this?

Any explaination to this?

Thanks

The gun is made before 1887 by Looking at the barrel proofcode which verify to the adress that it was in the 1883s. The barrelmakers (A&T) is Adams & Tait, Birmingham. The serie# on the barrel may be the barrelmakers serie# for their productionline.

Interesting rifle you have encounted.

Buck:
William Evans is still here, Google them, and ask them your questions. I've never seen a firearm without a serial number. Maybe the factory can shed some light on the situation.
Cal

Check GunsInternational and look at the .500 BPE. Most have been there for a while as market is very soft. They run the gamut of $4500-14,000 or more. I would venture an educated guess at $5,000.00 as full retail from what I can tell from your photos. Just my 2 cents.

.

William Evans From Purdys - on the lock plates. Which I would guess dates it early 1880s. Birmingham barrels, London locks and put together by early Evans.

Looks to be in good condition!

Good luck

.

How did it go?

Viewing the condition of this rifle by photos only, I would be hard pressed to even offer $3,000.00 unless the barrel is of very very good condition, which I doubt it is. I speak of this as one who has gained an education in the market, especially in a down market for double rifles and double shotguns that we are in now.

Hello Colin Masters,

Thanks for your reply.

Status is; well, it came home with me.

Nice thing about this one is, it is totally unmolested with condition being "aged from use". Both bores are Mirror-Bright "MINT" with not even a hint of corrosion, and as stated in the original description in the post above, no chips or cracks in the wood, with over 80% Original Finish remaining. Only the forend shows a flattened area with the checkering being rubbed smooth from carrying over the shoulder, or being long time stored in a rack. Also, the steel butplate has turned gray with dark spotting.

All in all, when compared to my dozen other antique doubles, this one ranks as one of the nicest.

I did confirm it was made in 1883 ( Wm. Evans first year of sales ) but still have no explaination as to the lack of a serial number.

I'll be taking pictures and posting them later, now that its in my hands so I can use my camera instead of my phone.

later .....

I am indeed pleased that the photos did not represent the actual condition of the DR, but that it was much better in condition; and most importantly, the fine condition of the bores.

It is very similar to the army and navy a friend has that is chambered in .577-450. I'll try and dig up some better pictures I have ofnit.

Just my take, but it's not worth more than $5000 in my opinion. Really nice rifle, but the the market for double rifles is shrinking and especially in the BP market. $5000 is on the high end.

I don't know guys. I think I would be pleased in picking up that gun for $5K.
I've never seen a William Evans I didn't like.
With great bores I'm sure it will shoot and the 500 3" is about as easy as it gets as far as bullet selection and reloading whether with black or NfB.

Buck, keep us posted on how you make out with this rifle.

I think for that rifle being in such an original state that it is totally worth $5,000.

Beautiful gun!

Hello mdstewart,
Hello Huvius,
Hello Colin Masters,

Thanks for your replys.

I've discovered that taking good pictures of this rifle is really tough, too much glare and reflection from the flash. These digital camera pictures are better than those that I tool with my phone, but they still don't show the detail of the engraving, and how nice this rifle is when examined in hand. I think I'm going to buy a better camera.

As a side note, these pictures do shown a lot of dried-on "old oil" on the metal, that has turned into varnish. I'm not sure I want to try to clean this because I personally like the look of it, and I think that once I start shooting this rifle, a lot of that grime will disolve-away when I wipe it down with OLD Hoppies after each outing.

I still have 1-1/2 gallons of the "Old Original Hoppies" left. That should last me until I'm too old to shoot, and then I'll just sit around and smell it.

As always, comments are welcome.

By-the-way, I called William Evans in England this morning. The gentleman I spoke with confirmed that Evan's very first few rifles DID NOT have serial numbers. He said he'd be getting back to me with what he could find about this rifle's making and any History.

Jewel of a rifle thanks you for the pics. When you take her out and on a date, don't forget us. We want to be voyeuristc.

Beautiful.
The dried-oil patina is certainly not hurting anything, and will just have to be replaced with more oil if you wipe it off with Hoppes.
Natural wear and wiping will take care of it, as you say.

The original sale price in 1883 was some tiny 2-digit number of pounds?
Something new-made with that sort of craftsmanship and artistry would be astronomical now.

I find it incredible how nicely shaped those stocks are from the past-forearm too.I have not seen any gunmaker today come close and those vintage stocks were probably entirely hand made.

On nice fall days I could hunt whitetail deer with this kind of rifle for the rest of my life.

Cabelas has a hammer double right now in .500-.465 cordite for $13,000. I can't wait to see them drop the price of that rifle at least $5,000 in the next 4 months.

Hello RIP,
Hello shootaway,
Hello Colin Masters,

Thanks for the replys.

It took a couple of days of searching, but I finally found a William Evans case label with the original 95 Buckingham Palace Road address. And .... with Photo-Shop and today's modern printers (and some parchment paper) I dressed up my case. All I need now is a card that shows the charge for a 500 EX.

Buckstix,

If you'll pm your email address I'll send a picture of the charge card in my 470 Evans case.

With a little creativity you can edit it to match your rifle.

Nice rifle, by the way.

Congrats

Hello 470Evans,

Thanks for the reply.

Thank you for the picture. Now all I have to do is find the original recommended charge for a 500 in 1883.

This may help:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/632501622

Hello 470Evans,

Thanks for the reply.

How's this look. I have an original 1885 4-page instruction booklet with my Alex Henry.

I added a few photo-shop adjustments.

The Kynoch catalog 470Evans references has only one load for the .500.
300gr paper patch bullet (patched in the picture anyway) over 137gr powder.
That would put it a smidge over 5 drams.
My own Alex Henry 500 double works well with a cast 440gr bullet and 110grs Old Eynsford but I think it would really shoot with a lighter bullet and a bit more powder. 110grs is a little over 4 drams so maybe that card from your A. Henry is telling me that I need to do just that!

Buck,

Looks good, amazing what can be done with a computer.

Hello Huvius,
Hello 470Evans,

Thanks for the replys.

Well, I got an answer to my email to William Evans today. They had very little information to add about my rifle.

My rifle was built within the first 2 years of production (1883-1885) based on the "Buckingham Palace Road" address and "no serial number". They indicated that most of the first guns had no serial numbers added because the rifles that were built by others (for them) either complete or nearly so. During those very early times itmis possible Evans wasn't even sure if his business venture would be successful, so he wasn't keeping very good (if any) records about the first guns he sold.

They indicated that my rifle was likely NOT built specifically for Evans as evidenced by the lock engraving which did NOT have his name engraved at the same time the locks were engraved with the borders and patterns surrounding the "William Evans from Purdeys" name. Rather, his name was merely "added" to the existing engraved locks on a rifle that was purchased complete with finished engraving. William Evans's name was later added and it can be seen that it actually "overlaps" the existing engraving pattern in places.






So, now the question begs to be asked - "who" built this rifle? One distinguishing feature of this rifle is the "cone" shaped firing pins which are held in place by screws that come up at an angle from the bottom sides of the fences, as compared to most hammer doubles which have their firing pins held in place with "hole-through" nuts screwed in from the back. Could this be a clue as to who made this rifle? Although I've looked at many pictures over these last few days, I cannot find any other rifles with firing pins that are held in place like those on this rifle.

Could the "JB" stamped on the forend hanger be a clue? (see first picture)

Any suggestions?

Hello All,

Well I finally got around to shooting my Evans.

Results are not too good & not too bad. Looks like I've got a little more load developement to do with this one.