{Mar. 04, '08 - SEE MY NEWEST POST ABOUT A DOZEN POSTS DOWN !}

When you open your action and tilt the now open rifle down and up,

do the firing pins slide out of their holes and back into their holes
from just the effect of gravity? Mine do.

So you really do need a "pin job," eh?
I thought there were coil springs around the firing pins, like the spring around the "clicker" ballpoint pen ink refill, the firing pin bushing being like the barrel of the ink pen. These springs are compressed by the striker fall, allowing the pin to protrude and then retract after the striker rebounds.

Firing pin springs gone south? A minor item hopefully. That would lead to a firing pin possibly sticking in a soft primer, dragging on opening, making it hard to open.

Let's hope for a thorough lecture on these mechanics from 400 Nitro Express or MacD37.

Some rifles have spring rebounding pins, some don't. If the pins are the right length, it doesn't matter.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Let's hope for a thorough lecture on these mechanics from 400 Nitro Express or MacD37.

The retractor springs are missing or are collapsed! Replace them! A break top rifle with pins that pertrude through the pin holes in the breech face, will sooner, or later be snapped off by opening the rifle with empty chambers!

I agree with Mac. If the firing pins didn't have some sort of return spring, they would be prone to stick into a spent primer. It probably only needs new springs.

On the bright side, if you use it for duck hunting, the pins should fall back in every time...

Many Brit doubles were bilt without return springs. I'll have to say that all that I recall seeing are shotguns, but I haven't looked for the matter in rifles either. More than a couple of those are paired guns designed to shoot hundereds of rounds a day. Guess what, so long as pin length is correct they do not sick on opening or closing.

JPK
PS: If I can find my digital camera - and after moving, finding anything is proving a challenge - I'll post a photo of a pair of guns built without rebounding pins and still going strong since 1918.

That's true, but the firing pins on a shotgun are significantly larger than those of a rifle.

So that begs the question, have you ever seen a rifle without rebounding springs?

As I mentioned I have not but I haven't looked. Your point about firing pin diameter is a goood one that has me wondering.

JPK

I can’t say I have ever seen a rifle or shotgun other than some really old hammer guns that were non rebounding and you had to set the hammers at half cock to open them, that didn’t have some method of retracting the firing pins. The latter hammer guns had rebounding hammers and springs that retracted the pins so they didn’t hang up on opening. I know someone will come up with some obscure maker that didn’t do this to prove me wrong. That being said I couldn’t imagine a dangerous game rifle with out rebounding pins. Finding out your rifle has the firing pins sticking in the indention on the primers just when you Really Really need a fast reload could ruin your day.
Bill

On shotguns, many hammer guns, sidelocks and box locks(? not so sure about boxlocks since they are outside of my area of interest) were made without rebounding pins. The hammer rebounds so the pin is free and not at all similar to non rebounding hammer guns.

But I do wonder about rifles after New Guys observation.

JPK

I'M SURPRISED JJ DIDN'T CATCH THAT WHEN YOU SENT THE RIFLE FOR INSPECTION.

Of the English double rifles I have worked on, (45-50), very,very few have had return springs on the firing pins. The pins are mounted in the action body in a slightly upward facing position. This positioning allows the pins to slide back by the raising of the barrels instead of being wedged in the bushing and sheared.

My rifle has come "up to bat" at JJ's shop finally.

I talked with him today. MOST old UK built DR's

had NO springs on the pins said he. This goes

with the experiences of shikarafar1 above. Pins

"sticking" in the primers of cartridges after firing

will be fixed and G. Caswell said he'd cover that
expense. [G.C. is a "Good Egg". ] I'm hav-

ing a warthog ivory front site installed. And on

the standing blade, the platinum line is being

replaced. JJ's judged the rifle to be tight on face

so no work of that sort is needed. The trigger

pulls should be able to be improved a little he

said and I am happy about that. There's a sharp

screw that is to be cleaned up or replaced too.

I have decided to have the action case colors

reapplied and to have the top lever and some

other parts reblued as JJ recommended. All done

the cost should be under $1200- and that suits

me fine. One to two months of waiting to go and

I'll be shooting again. Hornady may have my

caliber brass on the market soon and that's more
good news. I AM HAPPY!!!!!

Does anyone know how to learn the year that a

rifle built by C. Osborne was built? By the way,

mine has the retailer's name on the barrels as

- LAWN and ALDER -

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
Does anyone know how to learn the year that a

rifle built by C. Osborne was built? By the way,

mine has the retailer's name on the bbls.

- LAWN and ALDER -

It's possible. Osborne's records don't survive, but like Webley's, much of their output was for the trade, and some Osborne numbers thus survive in other trade records, making it possible to piece together a rough serial number table similar to the one I did for Webley's rifle numbers. Such a table for Osborne was published in Nigel Brown's "British Gunmakers".

Osborne may well have built it for Lawn & Alder (it looked like an Osborne to me). The kicker is whether they put their own serial number on the barrels or not. Look on the barrels for the trade maker's number - usually somewhere around the fore-end loop, sometimes on the loop itself. Osborne definitely assigned their own numbers to the guns they built for others, but I don't know if they did so for all of them. Normally such guns will have the maker's number somewhere around the loop, and the retailer's number stamped elsewhere on the barrels or flats and also engraved on the tang. Obviously the two numbers won't match - but there's an exception to that. Some retailers, especially the small ones, didn't assign their own numbers, so their guns were retailed with only the trade maker's number on them - for example later Wilkinson's, later Manton's, Harrod's, London Sporting Park, etc. That could easily be the case with Lawn & Alder. I don't know for sure. If the order didn't include the retailer's assigned serial number, the trade maker would often engrave their own number on the tang, in addition to stamping it in the usual place on the barrels, in which case both numbers will match.

Of course, it's also possible to rough date a British gun from the proof marks.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Thanks Mark. I'll look closely for the data when
the rifle is returned after the pending work.