As you guys might remember I bought a Verney Carron 450 NE in November 2014. I have had some shoulder problems starting in 2013, did one surgery in August 2013 in the left shoulder and one in late July 2014 in the right shoulder. Managed to bag a decent buffalo with CMS in October 2014 using my Blaser Kilombero 375 HH. However, booking a tuskless with CMS for July 2017 - time has come to start testing and practising real shooting with the Frech escorte girl as my hunting buddy like to call the rifle. Enough " dry " shooting in my living room and finally on Sunday it was warm weather enough to go outside. I was excited; would the shoulder hurt, did I like the recoil, could I manage the rifle and did I shoot straight with it.

I have had great advice from Nick ( Australia ) Larry ( USA ) and Todd ( USA ) - all of them clients of CMS and my PH Rich Tabor along the way. Mr Sam Rose has given me wonderful advice regarding reloading and even brought me approx 100 CEB bullets when visiting Norway a couple of years ago. I got a friend to make some handloads out of it. Nick told me to start at 10 meters then move to 15 meters etc ... Here you have the result from Sunday ( Biebs is helping me publishing the pictures )


Picture no 1, no 2 and no 3 - this was on 10 meters standing free hand.

Picture no 4, 5 and no 6 - this was on 15 meters standing free hand.

Biebs have mixed them a little, but that does not matter. The point is that alle rounds are a mix of rounds.

To my surprise the rifle accepted very well all 5 different loads. I guess the story maybe will change a bit when I increase the distance. But time will show - next Monday some more testing will take place. I was very pleased with the rifle, did not hurt my shoulder at all. I managed the recoil. Maybe the Vithvouri N 160 gave a bit more recoil, but I did not notice any significant difference.


The next episode will follow next week ...


Morten

Great news, Morten! Hope to see the pics soon and I hope the load data I sent you works as well. jorge

Hi Jorge,

we put your data together with Sams observations and data. Just wait and see...

Biebs should be working on it now ...


Morten

Pic no 1 is factory load Hornady DGX 480 grain.

Pic no 2 is the factory loads 480 gr DGX plus hand load one Vithavouri N 140 with both 480 gr CEB and one 500 gr Horandy DGS and one Vithavouri N 160 With CEB 480 grain and Hornady DGS 500 grain.

Pic no 3 is the factory load and 2 rounds With Vithavouri N 160 480 grain CEB and 500 grain Hornady 500 DGS.

Pic 4,5 and 6 is the same but at 15 meters.


So next time I will test on 50 yards ( 45 meters ) I'll keep you posted !

THe faxctory loads are using H4831 according to Jorge. I a was not able to get that powder here and the RL 15 is supposed to be like the Vithavouri N 140. It is easier to get Norma and Vithavouri powder in Norway, but I have now located one delaer with Hogdson powder. For the time being we will keep the loads to Vithavouri and test more on this.

All the best,
Morten

Morten:
Excellent shooting. Speaks well of the VC, your ability and a good load for that rifle. You will have a blast on your ele hunt. Looking forward to a great hunt report.

I think you have a winner with that VC! That is the way doubles are supposed to shoot!

I think the elephants are already leaving the concession heading for safer ground!

........................

Good luck.

Brilliant. Wish you all the best.

While I am not a DR expert, I think Vithavouri N 140 is very similar to Re15 & will give you lowest recoil for same velocity with same bullets.

I think most of the Reloader powders are made in Sweden (Norma?). http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/...18588-Made-in-Sweden -
I would like to know the facts if anyone knows.

I tried VVN160 in my 416 Rigby & got very similar results to H4350- May be 100 fps less for the same load.

Wish you all the best & I look forward to more shooting results for 50 meters & even 100 meters.

Need to see pics....
In my 450 NE I was using 100grns of H4831sc in front of 480grn CEB bullets until I bought a couple of new bottles, the powder seem slow, ended up adding a few more grains to my load to get it to shoot the same. Switched to H4350 and got very good results with 92grns.

Good stuff Morten

shooting at close range and offhand will get your confidence up and get use to the rifle.

I believe that the 15-25 m distance is the norm for shooting tuskless in Dande in my experience.
Ive shot them from 9m -25m (6 i think) . Rich will get you in close no worries. There will be little need for a long 50m shot, so practice at the above mentioned ranges, get confident with the gun and the tuskless will be in the salt before you know it!!!

Your gun is regulating well, albeit at the short range, but its a very good start my friend!!

Keep practicing weekly and all will be good!!

cheers

Nick

Nice shooting! My VC 450 also shoots lights out like yours. I have found Woodleigh softs and North Fork solid bullets to be the best in my rifle. I am getting "width of the barrels" accuracy at 50 yards off sticks. I also use a Docter red dot sight on my rifle to compensate for aging eyes. Here is a photo of one of my 50 yard targets from last week at the range - the load was 99.0 gr of H4831 with Woodleigh 480 gr soft points and Fed 215 primers.

Hi guys,

Thanks for kind comments. Nick has given me a program that I will test next monday that includes reloading from the ammobelt. I will of course test it on 50 yards as well just to see how the French girl behaves.

I also have a Doctor recommended by Jerome and Larry. Due to my aging THis will be mounted after testing on Monday. However, the fiber optic Recknagel front sight that Nick recommended worked perfectly in the sun and was just like shooting with a red dot sight.


Cheers,
Morten

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Brilliant. Wish you all the best.

While I am not a DR expert, I think Vithavouri N 140 is very similar to Re15 & will give you lowest recoil for same velocity with same bullets.

I think most of the Reloader powders are made in Sweden (Norma?). http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/...18588-Made-in-Sweden -
I would like to know the facts if anyone knows.

I tried VVN160 in my 416 Rigby & got very similar results to H4350- May be 100 fps less for the same load.

Wish you all the best & I look forward to more shooting results for 50 meters & even 100 meters.

I'm Morten's reloading friend

Vihtavuori N140 is indeed close to Re15 (and Hodgdon Varget). Morten and I decided to try a typical slow powder like N160 (close to H4831) which is typically used for the nitro express cartridges, but also try the faster N140 which should, in theory, provide comparable velocity with lower recoil. A friend of mine is using exclusively N140 for 470 NE with good results.

Regarding the 416 Rigby; N160 is quite a bit slower than H4350, no wonder that you got 100 fps less with the N160. It is however a good powder for the bulky Rigby case, I also shoot the 416 Rigby and have had good performance with N160 and with Norma powder MRP.

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:
Hi guys,

Thanks for kind comments. Nick has given me a program that I will test next monday that includes reloading from the ammobelt. I will of course test it on 50 yards as well just to see how the French girl behaves.

I also have a Doctor recommended by Jerome and Larry. Due to my aging THis will be mounted after testing on Monday. However, the fiber optic Recknagel front sight that Nick recommended worked perfectly in the sun and was just like shooting with a red dot sight.


Cheers,
Morten

Let's hope The Doctor's mass doesn't upset your regulation and doesn't cost too much to mount. I was going to get a scope mounted on my Heym - until quoted $2400 for the mounts and work needed.

Great group! I'd call that MOB (Minute Of Buffalo)!

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:
Hi guys,

Thanks for kind comments. Nick has given me a program that I will test next monday that includes reloading from the ammobelt. I will of course test it on 50 yards as well just to see how the French girl behaves.

I also have a Doctor recommended by Jerome and Larry. Due to my aging THis will be mounted after testing on Monday. However, the fiber optic Recknagel front sight that Nick recommended worked perfectly in the sun and was just like shooting with a red dot sight.


Cheers,
Morten

Let's hope The Doctor's mass doesn't upset your regulation and doesn't cost too much to mount. I was going to get a scope mounted on my Heym - until quoted $2400 for the mounts and work needed.

THe mount for the Doctor was taken care of at the factory in St Etienne when rifle was made. Did not cost much including the Doctor sight itself. Time will show whether it has some effect on the regulation. Plan to test it on Monday to come !

Morten

Just for info - the Docter mount and sight on my VC 450 3 ¼ has no effect on regulation. It just allows me to shoot more accurately.

Looks like you found your load! Now go kill something!!!

Nice shooting one and all......
subsailor74, when you shoot from sticks do you rest the barrels on the sticks or do you have your front hand between the barrels and the sticks.
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
Nice shooting one and all......
subsailor74, when you shoot from sticks do you rest the barrels on the sticks or do you have your front hand between the barrels and the sticks.
Thanks

I always have my front hand between the barrels and the sticks.

Thanks

Guys,

I promised an update after yesterdays test. Biebs has again been very helpful and posted some photos.

First; I need to practise more. That is for sure.
Second; Open iron sights or Racknegel fiber optic front sight is not easy to shoot with from 35 yards and further - maybe on a buffalo and elephant, but not on a 2,5 inch red dot !
Third; To test and adjust the Doctor when shooting at 40 and 50 years you need a tri pod shooting stick. Unfortunately I did not bring mine.

4 sets of guerilla shooting adviced from Nich ( 4 x 4 shots ) teached me that I cannot be prepared enough for an attack and fast reloading !I will practise this more !

Testing the Doctor from 50 yards - I did not hit the paper... Moved in to 20 and 25 meters - that gave the result shown on the photoes. I guess we are talking about the hunter and his abilities and not the rifle and its capability to shoot straight.

Photo no 1: factory Hornady 480 DGX with Doctor sight at 20 meters
Photo nr 2: hand load Vithavouiro N 160 with Hornady 500 gr solid DGS With Doctor sights at 25 meters


30 rounds yesterday - got tired - lots of bang, noice and movement, but funny after all. I enjoy the ride Next testing will be with tri pod sticks and hopefully a cronograph in additon to the program from Nick.

Until then,

All the best
Morten

Morten,

Yes 50mtr with open sights and doctor is achievable, its just practice and being familiar with the gun.

Dont stress too much though, as i said 35mtrs is really the max range you will need to engage an ele for a brain shot.

realistically, get confident at 20-25mtrs and you'll be fine.

Practice the reload from the belt, that is important that it goes smoothly and no panic.

On my first tuskless, i put her down with the first shot, gave her a second on the ground.
then another ele decided to charge us and i dropped one of the shells for the reload!!,

Managed to get one in the pipe and it would have done the job if needed. Ph Pete Barnard had her covered with his 416 , and shouted her down without the need to shoot.

This taught me the importance of swift reloads.

I am right handed so break with left hnd and hold the gun with my right hand and load from the belt on my left side with the left hand.

Practice both ways to determine what suits you best, but always holding the gun with my right hand makes it a faster reload for me.

Good luck mate , your on the right track!

Im also practicing for my bull ele hunt in 3 weeks time, same routine , just concentrating on longer ranges that i will encounter in Namibia,


cheers

Nick

I'd love to see the rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Masters:
I'd love to see the rifle!

Book a flight to Norway and I meet you at the airport

I will try to post some photoes of the rifle - Biebs, the gentleman he is, helps me with that !

Morten

quote:

Originally posted by nickh:
Morten,

Yes 50mtr with open sights and doctor is achievable, its just practice and being familiar with the gun.

Dont stress too much though, as i said 35mtrs is really the max range you will need to engage an ele for a brain shot.

realistically, get confident at 20-25mtrs and you'll be fine.

Practice the reload from the belt, that is important that it goes smoothly and no panic.

On my first tuskless, i put her down with the first shot, gave her a second on the ground.
then another ele decided to charge us and i dropped one of the shells for the reload!!,

Managed to get one in the pipe and it would have done the job if needed. Ph Pete Barnard had her covered with his 416 , and shouted her down without the need to shoot.

This taught me the importance of swift reloads.

I am right handed so break with left hnd and hold the gun with my right hand and load from the belt on my left side with the left hand.

Practice both ways to determine what suits you best, but always holding the gun with my right hand makes it a faster reload for me.

Good luck mate , your on the right track!

Im also practicing for my bull ele hunt in 3 weeks time, same routine , just concentrating on longer ranges that i will encounter in Namibia,


cheers

Nick

Thanks Nick !

I will continue your program

I talked to Rich and he also confirmed 25 meters as a standard. I am also right handed and keep my right hand around the pistolgrip when opening, but so far the rifle is tight and hard to open and lock. In that way I need a lot of assistance from my left. This again have made me load with my right hand - and then I see your point clearly. I need to established as a routine loading from my left hand. Good advice Nick

Morten

Hi mate, if you "up and shoot" targets at around twenty meters off hand enough, then groups within the size of a coffee cup plate will come easy at fifty meters.
Practice with the whole procedure; load , shoot, u load and load again.

Morten,
There are no rules to which hand reloads.
Whatever is smoother and more fluid for you is the one to use. I go left hand for the reload,
others may prefer right hand .
My VC took a couple of hundred rounds to loosen up , keep at it!!

Nick

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
Just for info - the Docter mount and sight on my VC 450 3 ¼ has no effect on regulation. It just allows me to shoot more accurately.

Now I'm jealous

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
Just for info - the Docter mount and sight on my VC 450 3 ¼ has no effect on regulation. It just allows me to shoot more accurately.

Now I'm jealous

Testet the Doctor red dot on my 450 VC yesterday. Shooting from sticks. Did not shoot very well and bullets crossed at 50 yards. I have to test this more to understand. Reduced distance to 35 meters - better but not good enough. Took off the Doctor and then the shooting/accuracy was much better.

More testing to come !

Morten