Considering taking the plunge on my first DR. It's intended for a second go at elephant in the next 2-3 years. I'm considering DRs in 450NE, 470NE, 500NE cartridges with a budget up to $10-11K. I've seen some used Chapuis and Blaser S2s in this range.

I've heard good reports on the Chapuis but know nothing about the Blaser and I'm concerned about the alloy receiver.

I initially considered the new Searcy Field Grade, but my PH in Zim this past summer has had trouble with the ejector in his older Searcy 500NE's second barrel, so I'm a bit concerned.

Any advice from DR shooters with experience with the rifles I'm considering or with other suggestions would be appreciated.

On cartridge selection, I suggest the 450NE 3 1/4". Great selection of cheap .458" bullets to load and an excellent probability that you can find a 350gr bullet load that will shoot to regulation. More than enough for elephant as well. You can also shoot the fantastic 450gr North Fork flat nose solids or the equally regarded GS Custom,. Both of those bullet provide phenominal penetration on elephant and are safe for double rifles because of their true driving band construction.

The other two will certainly work, and the 500 is a real step performance on eles, but is a big up in recoil so also requiring real commitment and less versatility.

JPK

Any one of those cartridges will be fine. If you reload, you can avoid the frightening cost of factory ammo for practice. On your trip, you might not care.

A Searcy Field Grade comes with extractors. Ejectors cost $2,000 more. You are getting a bespoke rifle at factory rifle prices. If you are in the US, it is easy to send your rifle to Butch for anything under his lifetime warranty. It would be harder to ship one from Zim, but I'm sure it could be done.

I have a Searcy Field Grade non-ejector in .450 Nitro X 3 1/4" on order right now. I don't have ejectors on my other double rifle or my SxS shotgun. Don't much care for them or the extra cost. I do have an ejector on my Ruger #1 Tropical single-shot in .375 H&H.


Hope this helps.

Had a similar problem with mine. Drove down to Butch's shop and he fixed it first thing while I waited. Hard to imagine a nicer guy or better service. Don't know the correct terminology but a little wear on the cam surfaces caused the sear to not quite release. What was your PH initials? Might be the same rifle. I would personally buy another in a second. In fact, he had a nice 4-bore that I am buying, as soon as I win the lotto.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5 Wildcatter:
Considering taking the plunge on my first DR. It's intended for a second go at elephant in the next 2-3 years. I'm considering DRs in 450NE, 470NE, 500NE cartridges with a budget up to $10-11K. I've seen some used Chapuis and Blaser S2s in this range.

I've heard good reports on the Chapuis but know nothing about the Blaser and I'm concerned about the alloy receiver.

I initially considered the new Searcy Field Grade, but my PH in Zim this past summer has had trouble with the ejector in his older Searcy 500NE's second barrel, so I'm a bit concerned.

Any advice from DR shooters with experience with the rifles I'm considering or with other suggestions would be appreciated.

6.5, I've owned all three chamberings and for my thoughts, like JPK, my choice would be the 450NE 3 1/4" for the same reasons he stated.

I have never owned a Chapuis, but I know severl people that do own them, and I have never seen one that wasn't very accurate with proper loads. The Searcy PH model is a real value for money spent, and as stated by others there is no better down the road warranty that the one that comes with a B. Searcy double rifle, or a nicer guy to deal with! In that one I'd also go with the 450NE 3 1/4" if several elephant was in my future. If only one or maybe two ele and mostly cape buffalo after that, then I would go with a 450/400NE 3".

IMO, the Blaser S2 is a mauling waiting to happen, and I wouldn't use that rifle, at any price, on anything that might want to kill me!

The Blaser S-2 automaticlly un-cocks the rifle when the action is opened for any reason, and doesn't cock it's self no matter what. It must be manually cocked every time the action is opened for any reason. Fire two shots, open to recharge the chambers, close the rifle and then you must re-cock the rifle. Not a feature I'd want in a close in fight for my life. The Krieghoff on the other hand re-cocks the rifle on opening after fireing one or both barrels, and is ready to fire as soon as it is closed. Both the Krieghoff are extractor rifles, but the K-gun is far ahead of the Blaser in every respect. Many thinks the COMBI-COCKING system are the same on both rifles but they are not. IMO, the Blaser S2 is not a DGR PERIOD.

One other you might look at are the Merkel 140-2 riles in 470NE, or 500NE if that is the chambering you are thinking about. I have two Merkel double rifles and in ten years have had zero issues with either of them.

The new ones are ejector rifles but the only rimmed cartridges they have are 9.3X74R, 470NE and 500NE that are good for DGR use. They have 375 H&H, and 416 Rigby, but those are rimless cartridges, and IMO not a good choice in a double rifle.

In any event what ever you decide, let me be the first to welcome you to the DRSS!

Oh, I forgot. FWIW, in the new edition
of "Shooting the British Double Rifle"
by Graeme Wright, on page 105 he mentions
that if he were getting a rifle in the
.450-.470 range, he would choose the .450.
It is a very nice book, although I had
already picked the cartridge before
getting the book. NitroX did a great favor
for us by arranging a group buy.

I really like my Chapuis .470 and feel it is a great buy in your price range. They come standard with ejectors and I have never had any problems with mine. I would prefer a .450 caliber because the bullets are cheaper and easier to buy but the only flanged round Chapuis makes over .400 is the .470. Kebcollc.com imports them and I recommend buying from them. Everyone who has a Searcy seems to speak of their great service. I just wonder why so many of his guns need service. A well made double rifle should go 20 to 50 years before needing any work.

Maybe it's because since Searcy's stocks are custom fitted and the triggers are so much better that we actually shoot our rifles. I will admit I didn't know chapuis has been building DR for fifty years. Just teasing, I'm sure you have a great rifle also.

A Merkel in 470NE or Searcy in 450NE.
I would not use a Blaser Double.

For 11K or a bit more, you can get a Verney-Carron from Ken at KEBCO.

V-C has been making guns since the 1600's. I own a .577 and have on order a bespoke .500 .

These fine guns feature hand engraving as well as hand rubbed oil finish.

quote:

Originally posted by goshoot:
I really like my Chapuis .470 and feel it is a great buy in your price range. They come standard with ejectors and I have never had any problems with mine. I would prefer a .450 caliber because the bullets are cheaper and easier to buy but the only flanged round Chapuis makes over .400 is the .470. Kebcollc.com imports them and I recommend buying from them. Everyone who has a Searcy seems to speak of their great service. I just wonder why so many of his guns need service. A well made double rifle should go 20 to 50 years before needing any work.

.....................

I don't know that Searcy rifles NEED any more service than any other double rifle, but if it does you don't have to send it to France! I can tell you there have been plenty of Chapuis doubles needing serious repaire right out of the shipping box!

Even the finest double in the world may need some work on occasion, if it is used and in a lot less that 20 yrs.

The Chapuis rifles are good rifles, don't take my post wrong, but they are not anymore reliable that a Searcy, and as I said there have been several I know of personally thet had to be sent back to the maker for many different maladies to be remidied that shold have never left the makers shop. That is just a sad fact of today's products.

So all I'm saying is the brand that is 100% without problems, can pick the brands he wants to talk down about.

Before you ask. I do not own a B.Searcy rifle, and have never owned one of them, but I have shot many of them, and know a train load of folks who do have them, and are quite happy with them. I also know Butch Searcy, and I can tell you that if one his rifles does need anything fixed, whether you bought it new or used he will fix it in the Good old USA, not in BFE!

Making a final choice on my first DR was a pretty tough decision and the advice all provided was excellent. I had a chance to speak with George Caswell who provided his opinion, as well as being very generous with his time answering questions from a rank beginner in DRs. At the end of our call, I was very close to buying a Chapuis that Champlin has in stock now in 470 NE.

But I had a chance to handle a Krieghoff and it fit very well, with the exception of needing a slightly thicker recoil pad to point exactly where the sights line up for me. The fit, price and caliber made this my final choice. It's a 500 NE.

My preference initially was for a 450-3 1/4" because of bullet selection and component prices. But faced with a choice between the 470 and 500 NE, it seemed that there is not much difference in bullet selection or component prices between these 2 cartridges, but more power in the 500 NE.

I'll get the rifle delivered next week so don't yet have any information on regulation loads - any information on this from users is greatly appreciated. Planning to start out with reduced loads in the 1500-1600 fps range with Woodleigh SPs and then load a few solids near 2150-2175 fps to use each range session. I realize the rifle won't regulate with the light loads, but I'll get a chance to get used to the fit and mechanism without being too badly beaten out of the gate. Any opinions on this plan to learn to shoot my new DR proficiently? Any ideas on good reduced loads with the Woodleigh .510" 570 gn. SPs?

Thanks for all the help. Hope my choice is not too far off.

I have two Searcy's. A 500 NE that I just picked up and a 375 Flanged. Both shoot extremely well, are eye candy and are accurate and strong rifles.

Things mechanical do go wrong sometimes, I've had BMW's and GM products. BMW stands behind their product well, and GM well not stand behind their product when they know it's their fault.

Butch is the BMW of Gun makers. It is comforting to know if anything goes wrong, he'll make it right.

For the money, I believe his doubles are the strongest, the most accurate and dependable double out there.

They are a good looking and fitting rifle, as he makes them according to the customers physical dimensions.

I looked a lot, and I think the modern barrels and actions Butch uses today, you can't find a stronger and well made rifle in this price range.

Having owned DRs for only a few years, my experienced is limited. My first was a Blaser, but I no not own one now for reasons other than the one Mac posted.

The Blaser just does not balance right. Feels like you are holding onto a pipe - way too heavy on the fore end. The 470 weighed in at 11.5 pounds if I recall. The weight definitely not "between the hands".

Having sold mine recently, I can tell you the market is soft. Entry grade can be had for 6k used.

I have since bought a gently used Heym. IMO, that is a fine, "affordable" DR.

Another thing to consider is this could be the start of a collection, or trading up. You may want to find one used that fits. If you want to move upward in rifle or caliber, your DR can be sold for pretty close to what you paid for it.

Enjoy the shopping, the shooting, and your next safari!

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5 Wildcatter:

I'll get the rifle delivered next week so don't yet have any information on regulation loads - any information on this from users is greatly appreciated. Planning to start out with reduced loads in the 1500-1600 fps range with Woodleigh SPs and then load a few solids near 2150-2175 fps to use each range session. I realize the rifle won't regulate with the light loads, but I'll get a chance to get used to the fit and mechanism without being too badly beaten out of the gate. Any opinions on this plan to learn to shoot my new DR proficiently? Any ideas on good reduced loads with the Woodleigh .510" 570 gn. SPs?

Thanks for all the help. Hope my choice is not too far off.

Get in touch with Mjines he has a 500NE Krieghoff double, and he shoots it well, and I'm sure he will have some very good advice on the loads needed to make your rifle a real tembo killer!

6.5 Wildcatter:

I have a Kreighoff .500/.416 as well as a Blaser .470. The Kreighoff is a superb rifle and I would highly recommend it. It does have the combi/cocking system. It does not have to be "re-cocked". Simply take it off safe, shoot, break the action, reload, close the gun and shoot again.

The Blaser is a bit different. If you cock the gun, shoot it and break it open, you must re-cock it on closing to fire it again. I don't agree with Mac. I think it is a skill that is easy to acquire and I would not hesitate for a second to hunt dangerous game with it. However, Jack D Bold is more correct in his assesment of the S2. My .470 is very heavy (11.66) pounds which is not necessarily a bad thing for a .470. The weight really helps tame the recoil. The S2 has very heavy barrels and Blaser compensates for that buy putting weight (a "kickstop") in the butt. In comparing the Blaser to the Kreighoff, you will find that the Krieghoff handles much better. However, I would not be inclined to buy a Kreighoff in a caliber heavier than the .500/.416. I think that the Krieghoff .470 and .500 (as well as the Merkel in those calibers) are too light for caliber but understand that is simply a matter of personal preference. I just prefer a heavier gun in a .470 or .500 and that is one of the reasons I really like my S2. I think they are both great guns.

One other thing. You can buy an S2 well within your budgeted amount. Take a look at the Euro Optics web site. He has guns starting at $8500 and the owner, Alex Roy, is great to deal with. In addition, if you look, you can usually find a good deal on a Kreighoff or a Merkel, especially the older Merkels without ejectors which I prefer anyway.
Hope this helps