More of a learning experience. I shot more of the 286 Oryx with the fired Norma brass. No crimp and a CCI LRP. Temp was 88 degrees. Load was 52 gr of IMR 4064. I didn't chronograph today but the other day this load was around 2250 fps which corresponds with the Factory Norma 286 gr. Oryx. The pic shows the group shot off a bench from last Thursday (2nd range session) and that is THREE shots in the center of the target with a forth below to the right. All shots are from iron sights as I am not using my scope yet.


Okay, today I load my brass, using the same load of 52 grains of IMR 4064. I cleaned the barrels with Wipe-Out before the range session and ran a dry patch after I was done through both barrels.

I moved the target this time to approx 80 yards and shot off my Stony Point bi-pod with the forearm resting on the "U" of the sticks. I shot standing with my butt leaning against the shooting table. First shot from the right barrel was to the left on the edge of the notebook paper. Second shot from left was low and to the right. Next two shots weren't much better and I made a sort of "W" with the group. Bullets were crossing over. I tried again at 55 yards and groups were much better with a slight crossover of the R and L. This time I held the forearm in my fingers instead of resting it in the "U" of the bi-pod. Between each set of 4 shots I was putting my rifle back in the truck with the A/C on and waiting for it to cool. I tried again at 80 yards and got a much better group but nothing great. I could still hit a buffalo with it at that distance. Bullets still cross. I have 3 left and after cooling I walked up to my steel gong and shot 2 fast shots from about 50 yards freehand and did okay. Again, enough to hit a buff in the vital zone. I take the last one and hit the steel gong dead center resting against a tree from 120 yards away.

Observations:
I need practice shooting doubles and I need to shoot the snot out of it. This ain't your Daddy's bolt rifle.

It doesn't like to be shot from a bench. Shooting off of sandbags slaps the shit out of my cheekbone. There seems to be more technique involved when shooting it off of a bi-pod. As in, hold the forearm and don't rest it in the "U".

Only a statistical sampling on three, but it seems to me the rifle likes to be shot freehand or using a rest against a tree where there is no interference of recoil.

I need to try more powders. Unfortunately, until I get to Ft Worth at the end of the month, R15, 4064 and Varget are my only choices.

And of course, I need to decide what bullet I will take to Zim.


Questions:
(and there is so much I don't know)

1. If 2 different bullet brands are of the same weight and velocity will they regulate differently? I assume that also applies to different brass and powders.

2. Is a heavier bullet more forgiving than a lighter bullet when it comes to regulation?

3. What about a soft in the right barrel and a solid in the left? Different powder loads in each?

4. It tends to shoot low. I don't know if it would shoot higher if I upped the velocity but then I would have regulation issues. Of course, the bullets were crossing today. I can and did raise the front sight up in the "V" of the rear but I am trying to find where it needs to be to hit center of target. I drilled the center of the gong at 120 yards but I had it higher. And again, maybe I got lucky. I think more shots will take care of that problem.


These double rifles are FUN!!!! But they do seem to have a lot of Voodoo, too.
Critique and comments are always welcome.

If your shots are crossing that much ...

You might try the RL 15. If tht crossed as well then you need to try some IMR 4831.

As I have osted before my Chapuis shoots good with several 286gr bullets with 65gr of IMR 4813.

You are correct the rifle likes to be shot off the bench as much loke offhand as possible.

I test offhand at 25 and 50, and kneeling at 100 and out.

Answers:

1- Quite possibly....equal velocity isn't the only regulation factor.
2- No....this probably has more to do with original regulation load/bullet weight.
3- Typically, yes. In my experience with 5 diiferent double calibers, the solids usually took a grain or so less powder to get same/similar velocity...and hence, regulation.
4- If bullets are low on target and crossing, try backing off a touch and see what happens. That MAY be an indication of excessive velocity.

Double rifles, as a rule, cannot be counted on to perform in any consistent manner UNLESS you are holding them WITHOUT allowing them to touch anything but you.

Lastly, yes, voodoo is an appropriate observation....haunted is another.

Good luck.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Well then, I will next try R15. According to a powder rate chart I have R15 burns slower than IMR 4064. IMR 4831 and H4831 are between 4064 and R15. We will see how that goes...

quote:

Only a statistical sampling on three, but it seems to me the rifle likes to be shot freehand or using a rest against a tree where there is no interference of recoil.

Your quote above captures the entire essence of shooting a double rifle.

There are ways to shoot a double rifle off of a bench, either sitting bench or standing bench, but the only way that you will be testing the loads your using or the rifle's potential is by using a method that allows the rifle to recoil in the same manner as if it were shot free hand.

If you were to lock your barrels in a vice while aimed at a target and look down the barrels you would see that the right barrel points down and left of the point of aim while the left barrel points down and to the right.

Since the barrels are not in line with the centerline of the rifle there is an off center push and twist to the movement or torque to the recoil. Since there is barrel time - time the bullets spends in the barrel after leaving the case, there is off center movement. Likewise with the upward push and movement of the recoil.

When the right barrel is fired, the recoil forces the muzzle of the right barrel to describe an arch from where it was when the primer fired up and to the right.

Resting the forearm on bags or sticks or anything other than holding the forearm in you hand will prevent the muzzle from moving in that same arch. The movement of the muzzle in that arch is required to make the rifle shoot to POA. It is factored in when the rifle is made and regulated.

When you are reloading your are seeking bullet, powder, primer, brass combinations that make the muzzles describe the same arch that they do with the regulating load.

I have found that velocity is but one element, bullet weight but another. Powder choice has a much greater influence that given credit or damnation for. Primers too.

As Garby has mentioned, low and crossing bullets is an indication that the bullets are leaving the muzzle too soon i the muzzles arch, so barrel time is too short, velocity too high - for that powder, brass, primer bullet combo. Slow the load down and it POI will rise and uncross.

There are a couple of good threads on regulation of rifles or loading to regulation that you might find helpful - do a search and they should turn up - try my screen name and "regulation"

BTW, a standing bench offers the greatest stability for repeatable shooting with the least felt recoil. A sitting bench with a low seat, making you sit upright, is easier on the shooter than a high.

Good luck,

JPK
JPK

quote:

Originally posted by RAC:
Well then, I will next try R15. According to a powder rate chart I have R15 burns slower than IMR 4064. IMR 4831 and H4831 are between 4064 and R15. We will see how that goes...

The powder chart I have shows RL 15 fastest, IMR 4831 slower, then H4831 slowest of the three.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

quote:

Originally posted by RAC:
Well then, I will next try R15. According to a powder rate chart I have R15 burns slower than IMR 4064. IMR 4831 and H4831 are between 4064 and R15. We will see how that goes...

The powder chart I have shows RL 15 fastest, IMR 4831 slower, then H4831 slowest of the three.

Interesting... I am looking in the back of the Complete Loading Manuals that you can buy from Midway. The ones that list loads from different powder and bullet manufactures.

I have several of these books for different calibers. I went to an old one that I have and it is like you said from fastest to slow...R15, then IMR4831, then H4831 with IMR 4064 being the fastest of the four. My newer ones do not even list IMR 4831 or H4831 on the burning rate chart. My bad.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
If your shots are crossing that much ...
You might try the RL 15. If tht crossed as well then you need to try some IMR 4831.

+1

My Chapuis loved the 286g Noslers and the 300g Swifts and the IMR 4831 was the powder period, shot wonderfully. You should be able to shoot that rifle off the bench or sticks the only difference I've personally found with shooting off of sticks is that my grouping will be 1/2 to 1 inch higher than off the bench.