I've never seen pictures of it or heard of it but why not?

Answer products used to have an ad showing muzzle brakes on a double, which I think was a Krieghoff.

First, it would be ugly as hell.

Second, it would screw up regulation.

Third, the noise created would probably force your PH to shoot you on the spot.

Fourth, it would be ugly as hell.

Forgot to say that the value of the rifle will drop by at least 50%.

DinnisHP, A double rifle's regulation depends on the recoil arch to make it shoot properly. A Muzzle brake would be a disaster in a double rifle!

This is the reason a double rifle cannot be fired with the forestock on a sand bag, and get
proper regulation. A double should never touch anything but the shooter's hands, shoulder, and cheek to work properly, and some even have to have the rt/lft/rt/lft sequince or they will not regulate.

BESIDES MUZZLE BRAKES ARE UGLY, AND NOISEY!

quote:

Originally posted by DennisHP:
I've never seen pictures of it or heard of it but why not?

DennisHP, do you have a full bladder AND feeling competative?



Keith

I probably have an old Shooter's Bible with a picture of the ported Krieghoff double around somewhere but just take my word for it that it was fugly.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
I probably have an old Shooter's Bible with a picture of the ported Krieghoff double around somewhere but just take my word for it that it was fugly.

CH I've seen the pictures of which you speak, and you are right FUGGGGGGGGGGGLYYYYYYYYY!

Barrels could simply be ported before being regulated. That said, not for me. I don't mind the looks but my hearing is beat up enough already.

Huh?

quote:

First, it would be ugly as hell.

Second, it would screw up regulation.

Even if you could regulate barrels with muzzle brakes----UGH! YUCK! Sacrelege! Blasphemy!

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
Barrels could simply be ported before being regulated. That said, not for me. I don't mind the looks but my hearing is beat up enough already.

Though I don't know why anyone would want to do it, regulating the barrels with them ported might be a very difficult task. First to work to dampen felt recoil the porting has to come out both sides, and top of each barrel. This would necessitate leaving the barrels un-joined at least for the length of the brake, and the blast from one barrel would burn the other.

This is simply not a good idea, on most rifles, and certainly not on a double rifle. It might work better on an O/U, because both barrels are recoiling in the same dirrection,UP, but at different amounts, but still in the same dirrection!

It should make the follow up shot much faster.. If they were screwed into the end of the barrels.And they somewhat resemble a McCulic comp with large side ports and top ports.. Or just expasion chambers that are angled from top to bottom like an AK 47......It should reduce muzzel rise... Course mayby the muzzel rise isn,t so bad........Careing what anyone else thinks about the looks of My rifle isn,t a thing I,de loose any sleep over.....

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
It should make the follow up shot much faster.. If they were screwed into the end of the barrels.And they somewhat resemble a McCulic comp with large side ports and top ports.. Or just expasion chambers that are angled from top to bottom like an AK 47......It should reduce muzzel rise... Course mayby the muzzel rise isn,t so bad........Careing what anyone else thinks about the looks of My rifle isn,t a thing I,de loose any sleep over.....

gumboot458, changeing the muzzle rise will destroy the regulation, Period!

For shame... talk of cutting into the barrels on a double... if it's built right, it doesn't matter...

let me try and put this in perspective: take the age old question; what do you get if you cross a pig with a _______________________ (fill in the name of your least favorite sub-group of human beings)??

Answer: nothing, there are at least two things even a pig won't do!!

It's the same thing here...porting a double barrel rifle is the other thing even a pig won't do!!

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS

don't discourage dennis from doing it.

when it fails, there will be a "short" bbl double on the market for pocket change.

hopefully he'll use a 450/400 as that is the new popular small bore caliber everyone is talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by DennisHP:
I've never seen pictures of it or heard of it but why not?

The same reason pro football players don't wear tutu's and pink pumps on the field.

A. It just ain't right

B. If you can't live and play in man's world take your sorry butt to the gay bar and order one of those fancy drinks with an umbrella and fruit in it.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by DennisHP:
I've never seen pictures of it or heard of it but why not?

The same reason pro football players don't wear tutu's and pink pumps on the field.

A. It just ain't right

B. If you can't live and play in man's world take your sorry butt to the gay bar and order one of those fancy drinks with an umbrella and fruit in it.

I can assure everyone I won't be porting my double. I saw an ad on a web site for a double and it stated it was ported. I thought it odd and asked the question.

Surestrike, how do you know about fancy drinks with umbrellas and fruit in them anyway?

Muzzle brakes means it hurts @ both ends !!! and if you need one,get a smaller rifle or eat some good English beef then you can build yourself up big and strong
Supressors are just plain ugly...!ok for you target shooters I suppose

quote:

Originally posted by DennisHP:

Surestrike, how do you know about fancy drinks with umbrellas and fruit in them anyway?

Touche'

OOO KKKK ,,,,,,......Guess I won,t be thinking of the added expense of porting or cobbing my rifle when I get it.......But to continue along this track.........As I,m a new guy and just po bolt trash with high hopes.........And the best demonstrations I,ve seen of shooting a large bore double is on the bunch of Mark Sullivan videos I got ....... :eek:........................His, Thys 600 doesn,t seem to climb too much .......Is he a great big strappin lad ...or avg size??? From the effort he exerts breaking the rifle open to reload,, it doesn,t seem he is useing wimp loads ..If I was going to shoot a hippo at 15 feet I would want all the snoose I could get ...........Which is I suppose why the older he gets in the movies . ,the bigger the rifle he uses.................I,m more into killing stuff as fast as I can ,,rather than letting an animal doomed to die,, go thru all the stuff they do...........Shut em off like a switch is my goal ........ But I like watching the rifles in action so ..........And the guy stands there and does it!!!! so I,m not going to argue his bussiness stratagy............ Why did Jack Lotts double 577 point it self at the sky but Sullivans 600 moves just a little more than my 458 Lott... And how does a guy find a double that recoils more back than up????? Is it the strength of adrenilin????????

Recoil and its effects and how to overcome it?? boy theres starter for a topic
IMO you should never fight or try to master recoil,its there and it will always be there,your not gonna beat it.
If you shoot big rifles they are going to recoil no matter what you do,so one of the most important things is GET A QUALITY RIFLE THAT FITS YOU !!!learn how to ride with it, don`t try and hang onto the rifle for grim death cos it will hurt and you won`t have any control over it.
I `m not one for womans shoulder pads,recoil suppresors etc or those horrible muzzle brakes.
A nice looking clean rifle is what I like.
Then again I do have a small advantage,I am 6ft4 and reasonably large build

P.S. don`t take too much notice of Sullivans videos for hunting or riflecraft interest.
But if you want video marketing reference, buy them all

I seem to remember seeing that Krieghoff Big Five double with the ported barrels. Don't know how it worked but Kreighoff no longer has it, so assume someone bought it. (Or they gave it away). That was maybe 4 years ago.
I think that is an interesting observation about Mark Sullivan and the rise on his 600 when he fires it. Maybe it just fits well. He told me the other day he shoots full loads in his 600, so it is not an underloaded round he is firing.
Mark is not a giant guy, but maybe 6'4" and pretty well built. He tells me he has no penetration problems with the .600 and does not believe there is a problem with that caliber.

Ported Krieghoff. I should have added: The ports were on the tops on the 2 barrels only, nothing on the outside of the barrels. I don't believe there were ports on the bottom of the barrels.

I am 6'4" and Mark isn't. At least the last time I spoke to him he wasn't. I'd give him 5'10" maybe 6’ or so. But size doesn't matter. learning how to shoot and how to hold a rifle does.

None of this big bore stuff has any amount of muzzle rise that your average healthy man 120lbs and up can't control. Most of the vertical muzzle rise you see on film is one of two things, either an exaggerated and human induced push up for the camera or the guy shooting the rifle is a fizzle dick moron who is scared of his own shadow and is subconsciously releasing his grip on the rifle during the self perpetuated "shock" of the noise and recoil. IE they've psyched them selves out.

Watching films of experienced guys shooting heavy rifles, doubles or bolt you'll notice that even on the largest big bores there is almost no noticeable muzzle rise or any horrible recoil motion.

It is simply NOT that big of deal once you get used to and competent with your rifle.

PS

I am not going to get into a pissing match about how tall Mark Sullivan is. He's a good bit shorter than I am. And yes the man can shoot a double. My point being size doesn't matter shooting style and skill do.

It seems my lot in life to ask questions or make statements that irritate some and infuriate others..........So I,m pretty used to takeing guff ..............I imagine Mr Sullivan gets alot of comments ..........but I very much appreciate the comments about his shooting ect............------------------------------------------------How much force does it take to open a large bore double after a quick right and left has been shot.?? Say a 470 or 500 ??? Does it differ from brand to brand or from box lock to side lock..........Do any of you keep 2 cartridges between the fingers of your forend hand when the shooting is about to start.......??????????........And If I get a double I,ll do my best not to be a fizzel dick moron.................

Would Magna-porting ruin the price of a double as adding a muzzle break does?

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
How much force does it take to open a large bore double after a quick right and left has been shot.?? Say a 470 or 500 ??? Does it differ from brand to brand or from box lock to side lock..........Do any of you keep 2 cartridges between the fingers of your forend hand when the shooting is about to start.......??????????........And If I get a double I,ll do my best not to be a fizzel dick moron.................

gumboot,

Yes some guns are harder to open than others. Some brands are harder to open than others newer guns tend to harder to open than well used broken in ones.

Ejector rifles are always harder to open than extractor rifles. This is due to the fact that one must activate the ejectors when opening the fired rifle and it takes some mechanical force to activate them.

With all of this in mind any healthy 80lb child should be able to open any double rifle after it's been fired and is in good repair with ease. Once again while there is a difference between some rifles it's just not a big deal.

As far as how I hold my spare rounds. The old between the fingers of the weak hand deal looks cool and it works but it is not the fastest way to reload.

I learned a technique from a double shotgun practitioner that is without a doubt the fastest way I've ever used.

Take your two spare rounds and place them flat in the palm of your hand with the rims forward. You'll need to play around with the exact positioning of the round until you find your sweet spot. Grasp the forearm as you normally would with the rounds resting between your hand and the bottom of the forearm.

After firing simple break your rifle open as normal bring your weak hand up reload the rifle and close the action. It is a simple single gross motor skill movement and can be done very rapidly and smoothly with a bit of practice.

One of the reasons some people won't do this is that the rounds will scratch your forend.

Generally in timed competition my times are about half of what the others are on reloads.

As a side note. I'll be glad to show this reload on video and post it when I get my rifle back from Butch in February. I traded my old .470 in on a new PH model and have been double-less for the last year or so.

My new .470 should be on display at the SCI show in Reno at butches booth. You guys are welcome to come by and put some fingerprints on it.


gumboot,

I'm glad that you are going to strive to operate in "man" mode after getting your double. There far to many "fizzle dick morons" in the world today.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
Would Magna-porting ruin the price of a double as adding a muzzle break does?

Pegleg,

Yes it would kill the resale value bigtime. It would be like taking a really nice classic Rolls Royce and choping the roof off with a quickie saw and putting a thumper in the trunk, and putting some low pro spoke wheels on the thing.

It simply shouldn't be done.

during the golden age of african hunting and real double rifles think of the size of the average Englishman who shot his way across africa. there are very, very few references to too much recoil. only selous and his 4 bores come to mind.

today there are a lot of "recoil sensitive woozies " - probably inspired by the politically correct and sensitive group.

if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

if you can't stand the recoil, be a man, admit it and get a less powerfull rifle you can handle.

but most of all stop complaining about recoil- you work yourself up into believing you can't possibly handle it without getting hurt.

you actually start believing your own stuff.

crybabies !

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
Would Magna-porting ruin the price of a double as adding a muzzle break does?

Pegleg, it would do three things! First, and formost it would ruin the regulation of the rifle, secondly, it would absolutely destroy the monatary value of the double rifle, and thirdly, it would get you bannashed from the relm!