I'm a little way from my first double rifle but I hope to be indulged a little in my daydreaming, the question I keep coming back to is, what's wrong with the .450 NE?

I understand the ban killing it off in the good old days but now hunting in India is not even an issue but yet the .470NE seems to be almost readily available, whereas the superior, from my standpoint, .450 is as rare as hen's teeth.

Is there something subtle that I'm missing or does the better sectional density and bullet availability not matter very much?

You have to consider things in perspective. The early ban created many alternative calibers to the great 450. Due to the later success of the BRNO, Winchester and other big-bore magazine rifles, many of the great African calibers became almost extinct, and ammo sources dried up. As interest now in classic African calibers and double rifles has grown in recent times, manufacturers are responding to the market. The 450 NE was a popular and great round in its time, and continues to be so today. Its just one of the most recent calibers to be resurrected with modern ammunition availability.

I shoot a 450NE. Never had a hankering for the 470, but I do have a 500NE! Not sure that the 450 is as rare as you think it is, at least not this side of the pond.
Peter.

I know of a very nice William Evans in 450 NE here in NZ. My friend wants about US$27k for it at latest exchange rates.

The beauty of the 450 is the size of the barrels. The long narrow shells gives us thinner tubes then the bigger calibers, making for a handier double, easy to carry and quick to the shoulder. My Gibbs circa 1905 has 28" barrels and handles like a shotgun. 480 grains at 2150 fps should be more than adequate for anything that walks in front of your iron sights.
The research is half the fun ..
Good Luck

The 450 is what all the others tried to copy. It is a great round and I've always wanted one. I helped in load work for several and loaded ammo for two of my buddys. Have dies but no gun yet. The first 450NE I ever saw was a H&H double that was $925 and I begged my dad to buy it. My dad said I was nutts, $925 for a gun!!! It only had 2 rounds for it. That was when you couldn't find ammo and there was no brass. For a first double it would be hard to beat!!!

Sam

SROSE,
Please, what year was that H&H 450 NE
knocking at your door? Just curious.

Remember, a few years ago when FEDERAL

Ammunition decided to market loaded ammo

for the 470 NE they really impacted "the

game" immensely. Rifle makers were moti-

vated to market new rifles in that cal.

and the cycle started. Most of the experts

have expressed that in essence either rifle

will kill equally well given the bullets

are equal and strike the beast in the same

spot. So go with the 450 NE for the trimmer

rifle or go with the 470 for better chance

of obtaining ammo in Africa and everywhere

else. This is a "roll your own" game anyway

so I lean toward 450 NE or even the 475 NE,

identical brass but .483" diam. bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
SROSE,
Please, what year was that H&H 450 NE
knocking at your door? Just curious.

1969

I was a boy of nine...

I am not real sure the 450 has a distinct advantage in the realm of slimmer dimensions (frame) with a "modern double". It would surprise me if a Kreighoff, Heym, Merkel, etc used a smaller frame on a 450 than a 470 or 500. The current production doubles are a smaller scale than older guns, perhaps due to advances in metalurgy.
In the vintage or traditional english guns perhaps.

It would surprise me if a Kreighoff, Heym, Merkel, etc used a smaller frame on a 450 than a 470 or 500.
The german (normal version, no extras designs) frames for the 450 are the same sice as the 470, as the 500. Specially Merkel and Heym.
The K-Gun is an little exaption, there is an special version for lighter european calibers and you can get this in some african calibers too. At your own risk and money.


The current production doubles are a smaller scale than older guns, perhaps due to advances in metalurgy.
Correct.

In the vintage or traditional english guns perhaps.
Correct. In the old days, some of the legendary english rifle-maker, specially Rigby and Purdy, made different frames, depend in the sice and weight, in direct association as the caliber. But this long gone...

The 450 is a great round and so very similar to the 470, to the point that its hard to say its actually superior to it.

BIGFIVEJACK,

I was 9 at the time too.

Sam

Sam

So when are you letting go of the 450/400? !!

PS.

Please look at my other post buddy & let us have your views on that rifle.

Nakihunter,

You can pry it from my hands when I'm dead and gone maybe!

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
The first 450NE I ever saw was a H&H double that was $925 and I begged my dad to buy it. My dad said I was nutts, $925 for a gun!!! It only had 2 rounds for it. That was when you couldn't find ammo and there was no brass. For a first double it would be hard to beat!!!

Sam

. . .

What was behind this ban of the .450 NE?

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
What was behind this ban of the .450 NE?

If I remember the story correctly, in 1907 the British banned the sporting use of .45 caliber rifles in order to try to keep rebels in India and north Africa from obtaining ammunition and reloading components for use in their firearms. These were usually British rifles stolen or taken from battlefields. Many of the sporting rifle makers developed their own cartridge designs to replace their .45 caliber offerings, such as the .465 H&H. Joseph Lang developed the .470 NE as a .45 caliber replacement, but rather than keeping it as a proprietary cartridge, he release it to the trade. When he did that, many of the smaller gun makers chambered for it. That is what happened to the .45 caliber cartridges and why the .470 NE became so popular. I hope I got this right. If I didn't, I'm sure somebody will pound on me.

I chose the .450 over the .470 and I am very pleased with my choice. Much wider choice of bullets with essentially the same ballistics.

Recent posts here on AR have made me feel like a leper but I bought a Sabatti. It shoots great, I could afford it and I am HAPPY! There I said it.

Well all I can say from all I heard its a great round.
Bailey Bradshaw is building me the new falling block double in the 450 3-1/4.
So it better be good.
Jumbos here I come in November lead will be flying.
Larry

Hey Larry,

Are you going with Karl?

When in November?

Stay well,

Paul

Thank you for your thoughts gentlemen.

It appears that the .470 has nothing over the .450 with the exception of availability of factory ammo.

Over here one hardly ever sees them, it appears that the cartridge is enjoying as bit of a renaissance elsewhere however.

Regards,

GH

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
The 450 is a great round and so very similar to the 470, to the point that its hard to say its actually superior to it.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. There is no discernible difference between 480 grains @ 2,150 and 500 grains @ 2,150. I shoot a .470 NE for a variety of reasons not least of which it was a .470 NE in a double I liked that made itself available. I would be happy with any of the various double rounds from .450 to .475 as they are all virtually identical in performance.

Yes
Going back with Karl the Jumbo Killer
Will be headed there sometime mid November.
Right after 2 more weeks in Idaho.
If anybody needs a good ole boy Idaho hunt Mt. Lions and bears let me know.
I have been there 3 times this year and will be back 2 more times before the end of the year.
Larry

quote:

Originally posted by elk88101:
Yes
Going back with Karl the Jumbo Killer
Will be headed there sometime mid November.
Right after 2 more weeks in Idaho.
If anybody needs a good ole boy Idaho hunt Mt. Lions and bears let me know.
I have been there 3 times this year and will be back 2 more times before the end of the year.
Larry

Ahh,

Your the "group" that is following me and my father!

Good luck - I'll try to leave an elephant for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
Thank you for your thoughts gentlemen.

It appears that the .470 has nothing over the .450 with the exception of availability of factory ammo.


GH

With Hornady cranking out all the .450NE that you want, ammo should not be a problem. I just bought a case of it for $78 a box delivered.

The 450 is a great cartridge. I've used it in a Searcy for a couple of years. Hornady ammo has been easy to get online, not at small local gunshops, though. It combined with the fun of hunting with a double, has added some real challenge back to hunting for me. I recently went to the Eastern Cape for plains game and took the 450 as my primary weapon. I had a great time and would recommend taking a double any time it is feasible. Here's my hunting report of the hunt with the 450. Good luck and I don't think a 450 would disappoint.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/5981066551