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I would appreciate in put on bullet selection for my upcoming buffalo hunt in Africa. I have CEB #13 solids for the left barrel. For first shots I have 750gr CEB non conventionals or TSX. Both regulate about the same although TSX are 1" lower at 50 yds and group 3" at 100yds and maybe more accurate. My question also concerns hitting twigs and expansion? When I shot a buff with .375 TSX the bullet tumbled and went in horizontally after hitting a small twig just before impact. Went through both lungs but did not expand. With a Gibbs .505 I shot a wounded buff through a small bush and the 600gr Woodleigh expanded and punched a 1" entry site and stopped against the opposite ribs. I ve heard of the blades opening before impact on the CEB non con and not penetrating as well especially on frontal buff shots, particularly with 9" of muscle to penetrate. Any recent updates and impressions of non con? Superior ammo has offered to arrange and load NF cups if Lonnie gets an order for 200. Would be an option for second round also. | ||
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I've used the TSX on buffalo in a 500NE with great results. I've used the CEB on buffalo in a 577NE with great results. Shot through brush, don't know if I hit any twigs however, the bullet entered towards the rear of the shoulder due to my placing it a bit too far back, and the bullet was recovered under the skin at the rear portion of the opposite side hind quarter. I've shot quite a few animals with both of these bullets in various calibers, including my 2012 Zim lion with the CEB Non-Con from a 9.3x74R. Outstanding results on that one. Either of these two bullets will get the job done and then some. No personal experience with the NF CPS but I hear great things about them as well. I've used the NF flat nosed solids and received excellent results. | |||
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CEB and NF bullets are excellent imo. They have a much superior "Driving Band" design/configuration than TSX. Better internal ballistics. (Performance in the barrel.) I have only used CEB and NF solids .375 on Cape Buffalo. Got excellent results. I have only killed/hunted two Cape Buffalo. I used a NF cup point solid on one for my first shot and was very impressed. I'm one of those guys who likes to use a CEB or NorthFork Solid for my first shot instead of a Soft or NonCom. These bullets, with the wide flat meplat go straight to the heart. ( B&M Cartidges and rifles say that the CEB NonCom is very good that way too.) Flat point solids are also the best for getting through the bush. I have had to shoot thorugh a small amount of twigs a CEB solid. No problem that time. Some PH's don't like solids for the first shot in a herd situation for obvious reasons. My next Cape buffalo hunt will be with cast bullets in .577. I have intentionally configured the mould and mixed the alloy so the bullet will perform as much like a CEB of NF solid a possible. Check out "B and M Rifles and Cartridges" to see Michaels research on CEB and NorthFork bullets. They kill a lot of buffalo with CEB non com and solid bullet. Their research seems to be the real deal. Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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Sam Rose shoots a 577 Heym, and works with Michael458 in testing CEBs, NFs, and other bullets. I'm sure he's tried both. Might be able to reach him thru the B&M website, or PM me your email and I'll get it to him. | |||
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Good point Biebs, The B&M Website is full of valuable info on cartidges and bullets for buffalo. Those guys have done a lot of pioneering research for the rest of us in the sport. When I read their website carefully I realize that they have gone far beyound conventional wisdom and old concepts about cartridge and bullet performance. And, interestingly enough they seem to have the support and cooperation of two of the more progressive cartidge companies; Cutting Edge Bullets and NorthFork. In my opinion B&M, CEB and NF are far ahead of the pack. Their work is based on practical testing/experience in the field as well as range and theoretical research. I used one .375 H&H, CEB wide flat nosed solid and one .375 H&H Northfork Cup Point Solid for two different cape buffalo kills at close range. Both frontal heart shots. The old big bull hit with the 300 gr.NF Cup Point Solid went 30 yards and the bull hit with the 300 CEB flat point solid went 45 yards. I have to chuckle at my own 40 year search for the "perfect hunting bullet". After I recently arrived at the best of the best bullets in Cutting Edge Bullets and Northfork and built up a decent supply of each in 375 and 458, I got high jacked by the bullet casting bug and the .577NE. I haven't loaded a factory bullet for a year! So it goes with us band of hand loaders. Brian PS. Sorry, I may have had a runaway and got off the topic. The point remains that Biebs is right; Sam Rose and Michal M. are the high priest of big hunting bullets in Cutting Edge Bullets and NortFork Bullets. The B&M website is a "must read." Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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And if you want to see where it all started, try this: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/2861098911 All 300+ pages of it. AND the accompanying thread "The Double Rifle Bullet of the Future"! Do a search and you'll find that one as well. | |||
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Do what Biebs said & get in touch with Sam. He has probably shot more DR ammo in the last 5 or 6 years than anyone else (big assumption  . )Sam is a real gentleman and very helpful and hospitable if you do visit him. He played a big role in designing the #13 solids & I saw an early lot of prototypes he made up on his lathe. Michael is the boffin analyst and bolt trash shooter. But he does not shoot Blazers!!!!  "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Todd, Wow! That is a great Link. I will also check out "The Double Rifle Bullet of the Future". Thank you, Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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LR3, I've used a 577 for back-up extensively for a number of years now. I've yet to try CEBs though I've great reports about them. I used woodleighs mostly and found them wanting. A 750gr triple shock is all you will need. I still carry some solids just incase but barnes X is my go to bullet. Loaded at just over 2000fps. Blew a hole through a wounded buff, broadside. The shot was good under the circumstances and hardly made 20 yards before expiring this from a lively full gallop. On another occasion, toppled another angry buff coming hard in our direction. Absolutely devastating! Another first was Peregrine Bullets from South Africa. I couldn't get there "bushmaster" but the solid it truly impressive, (700gr @ 2100)! Quartering away hippo, hit behind the shoulder exited in front of the opposite front shoulder! I was positive I'd retrieve the bullet out of a small dirt pile, where it entered, only to find it gone through!! In my experience, woodleighs hardly ever pass through a hippo bull! There are a few good bullets out there and most work well. Enjoy the mighty 57 it puts the smack down! all the best with your hunt and the prep ;-) Leon | |||
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Thanks Todd and I ve followed your excellent posts on your experience. I ve read the 303 pages on big bore and also bullets of the future. I agree the work by Mike and Sam has been extraordinary, devoted, and thorough. I did look into buying Sam s old .577 VC and I agree he was an absolute gentleman to work with. I ran out of time to potentially get it ready for my last Africa trip. I have CEB solid FN and non con loaded so I ll take some of those plus the TSX. Thanks for he tips Brian and Wowo. I ll probably use the TSX for first shot and maybe for 2017 try the NF cups. | |||
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You'll be well equipped with those projectiles. I hope you have a great safari. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles .577: CEB non con vs TSX vs NF CPS
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