Hi
i saw a nice looking DR for sale it was a Rogue River 470 NE. Does anyone have a opinion about these rifles.
Dr B

Hey DR B,Read my post -double rifle?why not ruger?,I asked about the Rogue river double....seems they were not very well made...Hope this helps.

I have never had one in my hand but have spoken to people who think they are great doubles. If you are talking about the one on Gunbroker now I think it is worth the asking price. It is a beautiful rifle IMO.

For 8K, the only thing you'll find close to that on the used mkt is a merkel or searcy and this one has ejectors and good wood with lots of extras.

I'm a little concerned that someone has been inside the gun, as the screws aren't indexed properly.


Obviously, if the mfg had worked on the gun, they would not have left the screws like this.

Call "rigby" and ask them what they know about it - and more importantly - if they'll stand behind it. That would be the deal-breaker for me.

For only 6500 - this Merkel seems like a good deal too.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
For 8K, the only thing you'll find close to that on the used mkt is a merkel or searcy and this one has ejectors and good wood with lots of extras.

I'm a little concerned that someone has been inside the gun, as the screws aren't indexed properly.

Obviously, if the mfg had worked on the gun, they would not have left the screws like this.

New_guy, the screws were most likely not indexed to start with! I've never seen a RR double that was regulated properly, either! The barrels are glued together, with a space age glue, designed to hold heat tiles on space shuttles. A nice idea that didn't work too well!

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
For only 6500 - this Merkel seems like a good deal too.

Now why did you have to go and do that!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
For 8K, the only thing you'll find close to that on the used mkt is a merkel or searcy and this one has ejectors and good wood with lots of extras.

I'm a little concerned that someone has been inside the gun, as the screws aren't indexed properly.

Obviously, if the mfg had worked on the gun, they would not have left the screws like this.

New_guy, the screws were most likely not indexed to start with!

You could be right... After all, stranger things have happened... some even leave solder on barrel ribs


Charles - I posted that Merkel because I knew you NEEDED one!

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
For only 6500 - this Merkel seems like a good deal too.

Now why did you have to go and do that!

Charles, that is a far better buy then the Rougue River! I have a Merkel exactly like that one, and mine shoots great! $6500 is a buy for almost any S/S double rifle in good shape, and when chambered for 470NE it is a steal!

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:


You could be right... After all, stranger things have happened... some even leave solder on barrel ribs

RIGHT!..............

I've never heard of a Rogue River having problems with the glue that couples the barrels. I remember at SCI a number of years ago they showed attempts with a sledge hammer to seperate the barrels. The barrels were mashed flat and would not come apart. The glue is the same that holds the tiles on the space shuttles. They had a reputation for shooting well not poorly. Geoff Miller, the maker, is fanatical about accuracy. Rogue River became part of Rigby and basically a duplicate of this rifle will cost about $23000 today. I think it is a good value for $8500. People tell you it is a bad gun and recommend a Merkel instead. The Rogue Rivers were built on 20 Gauge Merkel actions so go figure. It seems they fall into the same fraternity as Dakota whereby it is fashionable to poo-poo them without specific basis.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
I've never heard of a Rogue River having problems with the glue that couples the barrels. I remember at SCI a number of years ago they showed attempts with a sledge hammer to seperate the barrels. The barrels were mashed flat and would not come apart. The glue is the same that holds the tiles on the space shuttles. .

LJS, that "IS" the problem,the glue holds too well! Once glued, they will not move apart, or together, and so you have to get the regulation right first try, or it doesn't shoot, and can't be re-regulated. The best double rifle makers in the world have not been able to regulate in one try, and Rougue River, didn't either. Hence, my statement, "A GOOD IDEA, THAT DIDN"T TURN OUT WELL."

MacD37,

I emailed the owner of this rifle throuh GunBroker and got the serial number then called Goeff Miller. The barrels were joined with solder.

FYI, I have a copy of the Double Gun Journal, (Volume Thirteen Issue 4, Winter 2004 pp. 116-124) that has a good article on the "New Rigby". The entire article is on double rifle regulation and has discriptions and pitcures of their process. Their standard is one inch or less at 50yds.

Best regards;
Brett

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Charles, that is a far better buy then the Rougue River! I have a Merkel exactly like that one, and mine shoots great! $6500 is a buy for almost any S/S double rifle in good shape, and when chambered for 470NE it is a steal!

Luckily for me, I suppose, I do not have the extra gun funds while the auction is on...

quote:

Originally posted by Brett:
MacD37,

I emailed the owner of this rifle throuh GunBroker and got the serial number then called Goeff Miller. The barrels were joined with solder.

FYI, I have a copy of the Double Gun Journal, (Volume Thirteen Issue 4, Winter 2004 pp. 116-124) that has a good article on the "New Rigby". The entire article is on double rifle regulation and has discriptions and pitcures of their process. Their standard is one inch or less at 50yds.

Best regards;
Brett

Yes Brett, I also have that article, and it is a good write up! The fact that the RR is one of the later, soldered ones, is a plus in its favor, and the engraveing is very nice on the RR rifle. Still, I personally would rather have the rifle on the other link posted, $6500 for a cased 470NE is a better buy IMO! I would be interested to know how that RR double shoots!

No matter which double rifle one buys, they are all neat rifles, and fun to own, and shoot. like anything else, it is just that some are worth every penny,of their price, and some AIN'T! Price is not a good indicator of quality, in every case.

There is no accounting for taste, I guess that's why the make cheap canoes, and expensive cabin crusers,not everyone has the same income or needs.

Mac,

I would like to know how it shoots also. I think that is a down side to any used double rifle purchase. I have a William Douglas .470 that I've never been able to get the barrels to shoot much closer than a 2.5in composit group at 50yds. I will probably send it to Champlins for re-regulation. It was a used rifle.

I think the Merkil / RR/ New Rigby BL are hell for stout and from what the DGJ said about reguation the RR/Rigby probably shoot very well indeed. That and the long barrels are what interest me in that rifle.

Best regards;
Brett

Brett
What kind of groups does your double shoot at 100 yards?

quote:

e

NE 450 No2

I have never shot at a 100yd target. FYI, I called the maker before he went out of business in 2003 and asked him about the regulation. It was regulated at 50m with FED Woodleigh 500gr solids. He said composit groups were 2-3in at 50m.

Brett

Brett, that is why I was asking about your 100 yard groups. There is nothing wrong with 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 yards with an Elephant Gun.
Shoot the rifle at 100 yards, and let us know how she shoots.

Brett:

I'd encourage you spend the money and let J. J. re-regulate the Douglas. He did one for me that is superb. The trick is to find a load that is consistent from each barrel and let J. J. put them together. I know what you mean, I don't like short barrels on DRs either, but I was always much more impressed with the Douglas than anything I ever saw come out of Paso Robles. Aside from the short barrels and being a pound underweight, the Douglas is a nice gun.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Thanks for the advice guys. The indivdual barrel groups are great with 89gr of RL-15 right at 2150. I would just like smaller composit groups.

I will shoot at some 100yd targets just for fun. Can't immagine shooting at game at the distance however...

Best regards;
Brett

Brett,
You may talk to the guys at superior ammo. That seem to have the ability to work loads in double rifles and get them to shoot without having to re-regulate. It might be a less costly alternative.

oh hell - why don't one of you guys just buy the thing, & if it doesn't shoot I'll give you $100 for it

Reference the Merkel listed above. I got a hair brained idea that maybe I could buy it, so I e-mailed the seller with several questions. This was his reply:

Thank you for your interest in the double rifle. I am listing this rifle for a customer; it is not my personal rifle. As such, I do not know the true history of this rifle. However, I will offer you my professional opinion, to the accuracy of his answers to your questions.

The owner had purchased this rifle #A470123 for an African hunt that never materialized. He said it is new, unfired. I believe it has been fired as there is some residue in the barrels. The sling was attached to the stock, and the minor handling marks, would have me describe it as “like new with the exception of some very minor handling marks in the woodâ€. There appears
to be factory rust preservative still on the internal parts of the rifle where the barrels meet the frame. Attached are pictures of the dings that are on the stock. He said the round count is “0â€. I believe the round count is probably 40 or less. I was told he had 100 rounds yet he can only find 60. He has 2 boxes of Federal 500 grain soft point/ 40rds. And 1 box of Federal 500 grain solids/20rds. The cost of the ammo is $390. The rifle has extractors only. The owner can not find the test target and doesn’t know the range the barrels were regulated too. I believe this to be a fine rifle, offered at a somewhat low price.

He chose not to answer my question about having it shipped to Champlain's for inspection, so I'm out. Thank goodness, that was close.

Mac, Tony and 400, thanks for your replies to my questions.

FWIW - the double rifles I've purchased new, rarely had the barrels "clean."

But if he won't let you ship it for inspection - will he let you shoot it during your inspection?

The price makes sense in that it is probably close to what he would have paid for it 3-4 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
Reference the Merkel listed above. He has 2 boxes of Federal 500 grain soft point/ 40rds. And 1 box of Federal 500 grain solids/20rds. The cost of the ammo is $390. .

That is a good price for the ammo, as it normally sells for $220, to $240 per box of 20 rds for Federal! That averages out to $130 per box!

I think the guy just fired the other two boxes, and decided it was too much gun for him! In any event $6500 for that rifle is a buy! As I told SBT, if I didn't already have a rifle exactly like that one, I'd buy it myself! I wounder if he would sell me the ammo without the rifle?

He sent me the same information, I am going to buy this rifle, it will be my first double.
gi

I have a William Douglass in .470NE and it groups about 2-3" at 50yds and this is quite good for a .470 as it is a Elephant/Buffalo rifle to be used at very short ranges . The previous owner of my WD is PH who has taken Elephant, Cape Buffalo and Water Buffalo and found the rifle to be accurate enough for the job and the weight was no problem. I would leave the rifle as it is.

Steve

Congratulations on your Merkel George!