quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
Plus for the price you are getting hand engraved not computer machined so your going to pay for that

Except at the $20,000 price point, I believe the VC is also engraved by hand. Frankly, the checkering patterns (particularly on the forearm) of this Wheeler double looks a lot like the VC pattern. Even the forearm hardware is the same. Would it surprise anyone if VC shipped Wheeler engraved barreled actions or even complete rifles for engraving with a different name?

The only thing not clear is why the barrels are sleeved on the Wheeler. I DO NOT think VC does this on their own weapons...but am not sure. ANYONE know???

Further, are you really going to say that what is going on here is like Ford and Jaguar being owned by the same parent company. What is really going on here is you have a Mercedes (VC) being brought into the UK and simply rebadged as a Rolls Royce (or that's what Wheeler hopes) and then strangely sold for essentially the same price as the Mercedes. Funny thingthough...with the sleeved barrels, as I don't think VC does this, it's even a lower end mercedes than normal that is being rebadged as a higher end vehicle. It's a bit silly really. As an aside, Jaguar (and Ford) lost me the minute they started making sedans that could be mistaken for a Ford Taurus. All modern cars look like damned electric shavers and it drives me nuts.

But if your buying from outside you can take off 17.5 % vat which will make it in the range of the high end VC not different then William Evans rebadgeing Italian shotguns for their O/U

I don't think the Wheeler gets to about $21,500 UNTIL you take off the VAT. For $20,000 I believe you already get hand engraving from VC.

I guess my main question is, why would I call Wheeler and order a rifle to my specs, when I can do the same thing with VC, pay about $1500 LESS, and not have to worry about my instructions getting messed up going through an extra company between me and VC? What? Just so it can say "Made in England" on the side? That's just a silly reason to pay a premium and risk my order being messed up in the extra sets of paperwork involved in using a middleman.

Add to the above the really ugly sleeved barrel seam on the Wheeler and it's a no-brainer.

Im not saying you should but to the man who buys only english guns who does not do his home work it looks to be A english double at half the price of a WR

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
it looks to be...

I agree. And in my mind (and perhaps my mind only), that is the problem...that it is presenting itself as something it is, to a very substantial if not complete degree, not. But...to each his own I suppose.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
it looks to be...

I agree. And in my mind (and perhaps my mind only), that is the problem...that it is presenting itself as something it is, to a very substantial if not complete degree, not. But...to each his own I suppose.

Just like all the Spanish / Turkish made "English" Shotguns.


And just like a Weatherby Vanguard, you know,
the gun that is "...that it is presenting itself as something it is, to a very substantial if not complete degree, not."

All countries do it.

Holland and Holland made their early name on the back of Scott's. Nothing wrong
with that.

.

But to what degree does any work have to be done in the UK to stamp "Made in England" across the barrels? Anyone know if there is something official regarding this?

Whats the problem people lust after BOSS WR rifles and its not even British Owned anymore same thing With Purdey Soon to be H&H the old ways of London guns being London made are a thing of the past its cheaper to out source does it mean they're not good not at all its just the price of doing business higher prices overhead cost and market

If the barrels are made / sleeved or whatever in the UK, then they need to be proofed in the UK.

Not sure on any "official" designation.


Could go back to the old days and stamp "Not English made" on
all foreign guns !!! That would please people no end !!!

.

quote:

But to what degree does any work have to be done in the UK to stamp "Made in England" across the barrels? Anyone know if there is something official regarding this?

Put together and Proofed thats it

They ONLY receive sleeved shoe lump barreled actions in the white from Verney Carron. Once received AW does the proofing, stocking, bluing, and engraving. For what it's worth they do make a nicer butt stock. It is without a doubt classic English where as the VC are not. NO question the stocks are different. They also offer a splinter forend. I would take the AW stock over the VCs, but why the hell would I want a sleeved shoe lump barreled action for that kind of money??????????

Brett

Because it says made in London > and has English proof marks lol im just kidding even though with what we know if I was in the market for a new double I'd give them the old college try they are very friend and look at their website presentation is perfect classy and refined I'm sold

I wrote to the AW guys but no reply. I thought it was a monoblock but a sleeved barrel is not cool at all. Yes the stock is nice.

BTW...Jaguar is not owned by Ford any more. It is now owned by Tata of India as is Land Rover.

And..... the Indian Ordinance Factory is now making bolt rifles on the Sauer 202 design. Not very good IMO....Just check my post.....https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3221043/m/2061095541

Why in the world would they use sleeved barrels on this high a quality rifle?

465H&H

Is there a possiblity that there's a language barrier her and "lined" and "sleeved" are getting mixed up again?

He wrote me back today and they are NOT sleeved:

"My apologies I wrote to you yesterday in error, after speaking again with our workshop they informed me that our double rifle barrels as with all our guns are not sleeved so my apologies."

He also mentioned that they are looking into using chopper lump barrels. I asked him if he could build a 10.5lbs .450 on chomper lumb barrels. I also asked about doll's heads. We'll see.

Brett

Just a side note those prices are not includeing of the 17.5 % vat so price is 26,000

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
Just a side note those prices are not includeing of the 17.5 % vat so price is 26,000

Correct.

Brett

Why worry who made the action as long as you like the finished rifle and think it is priced right?
Doubt there is any rifle manufactor in the world who does not sub out orders for some parts.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Why worry who made the action as long as you like the finished rifle and think it is priced right?
Doubt there is any rifle manufactor in the world who does not sub out orders for some parts.

Agree to the second sentence, but the first can be a worry depending on
where they were made. Some of the crap that came out of Turkey in the past
left a bit to be desired (mostly shotguns).

.

bump