I understand that New England Custom Gun can change the sights on my Merkel double. The factory sights are a square blade in front and square notch in the back. The sights are so thick that at 75 yards they block out a big area on the target. Is there something a little more precise?

I have a merkel 500 that JJ at champlins changed to the standard wide v on the rear and a bead on the front.....I like it....don't know what the cost is because it was done when I bought it.

Mac

quote:

Originally posted by R. G. Howard:
I understand that New England Custom Gun can change the sights on my Merkel double. The factory sights are a square blade in front and square notch in the back. The sights are so thick that at 75 yards they block out a big area on the target. Is there something a little more precise?

JJ can certainly change the sights out, and make sure they are on at the range you want.

In regard to the sights on a Merkel double rifle there is no reason that the front sight would cover any of the group on the target at 75 yds. The sights are meant to be used like pistol sights with the top of the front sight even with the top of the back sight, and with equal amounts of light showing on each side of the front sight. The hold is with a six o:clock hold with the group of top of the bead!

Even if you go to a round bead front, and shallow "V" rear they still should be adjusted so they use the six O;clock hold on top of the front sight with the bead resting in the bottom of the wide "V"!

I agree that the classic wide "V" and a 3/32nds beat front looks nice, but are not a fix all just because they look neat!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The sights are meant to be used like pistol sights with the top of the front sight even with the top of the back sight, and with equal amounts of light showing on each side of the front sight. The hold is with a six o:clock hold with the group of top of the bead!

Perhaps the best advice I give to my young nephews and friends when they are shooting bullseye targets with me is the advice you give above. They always try to center the front sight/bead on the target and the groups are disappointing and "off".

I tell the boys (and my 10 year old daughter) to line up the sights exactly as you describe and - "sit the bullseye right on top of the bead".

They are amazed that not only do the bullets go where they want, but that the groups are much tighter too.

I respectfully disagree with both of you.

I use a dead on hold. Even with my older eyes I can generally shoot golf ball sized groups with regulation loads at 50 yards.

On a charging ellie I want to put the bead "on" the brain, not under it.

Just my opinion, and what I am used to.

Don

Thanks men. I shouldn't have said the sight covers the target. I use a six o'clock hold. What I meant was the front sight projected on the buffalo target at 75 yards covers a foot or more. I suppose I want the center of that foot to be the impact point. That seems to lack precision. A nice V in the back and a small dot in the front sounds like it would be better. I'll contact Champlin.

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Soter:
I respectfully disagree with both of you.

I use a dead on hold. Even with my older eyes I can generally shoot golf ball sized groups with regulation loads at 50 yards.

On a charging ellie I want to put the bead "on" the brain, not under it.

Just my opinion, and what I am used to.

Don

Don what rifle are you shooting? What we are discussing is the factory sights on a Merkel, and the six o;clock hold is the way they are cut on the 140-2 safari. If you hold on your exact poa with them at 50 yds you will shoot very high!

The choice of haveing your sights cut so they are point on, is fine, but if they are cut for a six o:clock hold you have to shoot the rifle the way it is sighted!

OK Mac

Are we discussing the old Merkel 140 nitro's which had the rear notch with front blade, or the new Merkel's with shallow "V" and bead? Yes with the notch and blade one used a 6:00 hold.

It took Merkel many years, but to their credit, they finally got it right. IMHO

As to what rifle I am shooting, a partial list would include: H&H .240 flanged, Gibbs .303, Lang .360 No.2, Cogswell & Harrison .375-2 1/2" flanged, Jansen .450/.400-3 1/4", Midland .450 No.2, Heym 88B safaris (several/many), V-C .500, V-C .577.

They all shoot to dead on hold. Including a couple of the newer Merkel's I have owned (and passed along).

To clarify, the recomendation I am making to R.G. is 1) yes, have JJ change to express sights (he has recently finished one of mine and will be receiving two more shortly) 2) sight in for dead on hold (my choice).

He may do whatever he wants. It doesn't make a fat rat's ass to me. I can't see it from my house.

Again, whatever works for the shooter. 6:00 hold doesn't work for me.

Don

My Merkel had a V back sight and a post front sight so I just ordered a Recknagel front bead and swapped them over.
This can be done with the rear sight with ease also.
German Recknagel sights are commonly use and are sold in the USA by NECG.

Elmer Keith used the square notch rear
and square post front (patridge, sourdough)
to shoot deer and coyote with his revolvers out to 600 yards.
They allow easy elevation holdover, and precise aiming.

They are also used to hold dead on at close range.

The top of the front sight goes level with the rear sight top,
and they go DEAD ON to the elephant brain!!!

They are the best.
I prefer it to any shallow V and bead.
Me and Elmer.

Now when stuck with a V and bead,
I can adjust it to shoot to top of bead for a "fine bead" or "target bead" which some are mistakenly calling a 6 o'clock hold.
It actually shoots to the center of the clock, not 6 o'clock.
This rivals my beloved square notch and patridge, for accuracy, but not speed.

Or I can use the V and bead as a "coarse bead" or "combat bead" by adjusting the sights to Point Of Impact at the center of the bead.

Then the bead covers the entire clock face, and the rifle shoots less precisely to the center of the clock.
But it is fast,
as fast as my square notch and patridge,
but less precise.

It all boils down to the fact that Merkel regulates their sights for six o’clock hold, regardless of which one you have from their factory, unless you order it for a center of bead hold. Any one can choose the sighting to be regulated however they want. But an off the shelf Merkel is regulated to place it's composite group right on top of the post at the range marked on the rear sight!

I prefer the Shallow "V" and a 3/32" bead with a wart hog white insert. But I still like the composite group on top of the bead at the range engraved on the "STANDING" back sight. Example: With a 470NE sighted this way, you are looking at the point of impact instead of the bead @ 50 yds and center of the bead @ 100 yds! No change in the sight's position in the wide "V"!

That has worked for me since my first double rifle at the age of 21 for the last 52 years, of shooting and hunting with double rifles.
Double rifle are far more sensitive to individual fitting that most other arms because of their very nature if being designed as instinctive shooters, so must fit the person shooting them. This is highly important to make the double rifle to be simply an extension of the owner's body for best results. SO! Make the double rifle the way "YOU" want it to be, because it matters not to the next man on the firing line, or here!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
SO! Make the double rifle the way "YOU" want it to be, because it matters not to the next man on the firing line, or here!

Mac, On this we 100% agree!

Have a great 4th!!

Don

quote:

Originally posted by R. G. Howard:
Thanks men. I shouldn't have said the sight covers the target. I use a six o'clock hold. What I meant was the front sight projected on the buffalo target at 75 yards covers a foot or more. I suppose I want the center of that foot to be the impact point. That seems to lack precision. A nice V in the back and a small dot in the front sounds like it would be better. I'll contact Champlin.

RG,
Did you talk to Champlin???

Just shipped another gun (Heym 37B Deluxe) to J.J. yesterday.

When I get back from Zim I'll send him my 88B 9.3

Keep them flowing!