I just got my V_C catalogue and noted that they make single trigger models. Is there any benefit to have double over single triggers. It seems that I'll either load two solids or soft, solid any shoot the soft first. No forgetting the second the trigger as I'm a "bolt chalanged" shooter. Oops didn't see the other post

Two triggers, just slide finger backward or forward soft or solid. My opinion.

Mike

Two rifles on one stock. Two triggers gets my vote.

A "dangeruos" game rifle shall be rimmed (flanged) and have 2 triggers. End of story!

All my shotguns but one have single triggers and I just sold the Berreta with double triggers. My Chapuis and valmets all had single triggers and my Merkels 2. I prefer the single trigger as I only have one trigger finger.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
All my shotguns but one have single triggers and I just sold the Berreta with double triggers. My Chapuis and valmets all had single triggers and my Merkels 2. I prefer the single trigger as I only have one trigger finger.

Yep, till you're in a corner!

I have a 9.3x74r Merkel 2020 that has a single set trigger and extractors - I absolutely love the setup - The set trigger is nice for longer shots.

Two triggers equals two complete rifles, if one goes bad the other one still works..A single trigger rifle does not allow that. The option for a soft nose or solid is allowed with two triggers.

No single trigger RIFLES for me. Shotguns are Ok either way but I still prefer two triggers.

quote:

No single trigger RIFLES for me

Hey Ray, the boys at Westley Richards are crying their eyes out.

There are, of course, single triggers which work reliably, and others...

I do not know if there are any DR single triggers made using the recoil (inertia) setting method employed on lots of double shotguns, but if there are, I wouldn't have one of them.

To my mind, mechanical single triggers (such as on the early Winchester 101 shotguns) are much more dependable.

Either way, I've owned and used quite a few double rifles over the years, Including but not limited to WR, Simson, A&N, C&H, Tolly (SP?), etc., and I agree with Mac and others of the above posters. I do not want a single trigger, or an over/under, or a cartridge without a rim. I'll take a rimmed, two trigger, side-by-side every time.

I may not be as experienced as "Pondoro" Taylor, but I know at least as much about ballistics as he did, and I know a hell of a lot more than he did about what I like and trust.

Not saying I am better or that my decision should be anyone else's deciding factor. What I AM saying is that it doesn't matter what he or anyone else preferred when it comes to chosing MY OWN rifle.

I was raised using two trigger SXS shotguns...mainly Greeners, early Ithacas, that sort of beast (still have and use my L.C. Smith 16), and prefer the same type of thing in hunting rifles for snarly game. Had and used Browning Superposeds (which is where I learned not to trust single triggers), Berretta S-4s, Zolis, SKBs and other twin stacker shotguns too. Found I greatly prefer the barrels next to each other, not stacked like cord wood.

Personally, I think that anyone with much real experience would know that not every one chooses the same woman, car, house, investment product, gun, or even beer.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Two triggers equals two complete rifles, if one goes bad the other one still works..A single trigger rifle does not allow that. The option for a soft nose or solid is allowed with two triggers.

No single trigger RIFLES for me. Shotguns are Ok either way but I still prefer two triggers.

This question has interested me for quite a while. I've heard many arguments pro and con, but I've never heard this question addressed: Is the current crop of double rifles of such poor quality that you have to plan for a trigger to fail? I've shot rifles, shotguns, and handguns for over 45 years now and have yet to have a trigger fail. I've been considering purchasing a double rifle, but if they are so crappy that you have to assume that a trigger will break, perhaps I'm better off sticking with a bolt gun if my life is going to depend on it. So what is it, are doubles made so poorly that you can't count on them or is this a red herring?

quote:

Originally posted by scojac:

This question has interested me for quite a while. I've heard many arguments pro and con, but I've never heard this question addressed: Is the current crop of double rifles of such poor quality that you have to plan for a trigger to fail? I've shot rifles, shotguns, and handguns for over 45 years now and have yet to have a trigger fail. I've been considering purchasing a double rifle, but if they are so crappy that you have to assume that a trigger will break, perhaps I'm better off sticking with a bolt gun if my life is going to depend on it. So what is it, are doubles made so poorly that you can't count on them or is this a red herring?

No, they don't have double triggers because they are crap quality but to have two separate rifles in the one gun which is advantageous in a Dangerous Game environment, either to choose a different bullet (soft or solid) or so you always have one gun that works if something goes wrong with the other - ie a misfire, be it broken firing pin, bad primer, bad primer strike etc.

.

Of course this will NEVER be answered to everybodies satisfaction as there is REALLY no answer as it is a personal preference type thing like bolts against doubles. I have been hunting for and more importantly SHOOTING for over 60 years. Almost all my guns,rifles,pistols,shotguns had a single trigger and a result it is pretty well ingrained in me that I don't have to re-position my trigger finger after each shot, just pull again. This is 60 years of habit. I had as a young person always wanted to hunt in Africa and read all the books when in high school about the romance of walking Africa and always with a double rifle. When I was in High school I got my first double,a Cogswell & Harrison 450/400. Only problem was it only came with 3 rounds and I never was able to buy any more. I t was double trigger but I never shot it very much but SNAPPED it many many times (I did not know at the time this would immediately cause disaster without snap caps which at that time I had never even heard of) and when I traded it it was in perfect firing condition.Jump forward in time to 1997 when I went to Africa for my first trip. Only carried a bolt rifle in 375H&H as my only dangerous game was Leopard.Startyed to read more about the big 5 and decided if the time ever came I could hunt Elephant I would need a double. Started with a couple of Valmet's in 9.3x74R (single trigger) andwasn less than pleased with them as they weren't REAL doubles as they were O/U so bought a Chapuis in 9.3x74R (single trigger again) and wasn't really pleased with the caliber for Elephant. Hunted elephant for the first time and used a bolt 375H&H and failed to recover the elephant even though as I later learned he died after leaving our hunting area. Tried a close range frontal brain shot and missed the spot. Determined from reading and following these forums that what I needed was a double with double triggers in a caliber not less than 470NE. I ordered a Merkel in 470NE with double triggers ,of course. To get familiar with the double triggers I bought a Beretta o/u with double triggers to practice getting used to them. Missed many clay pigeons on doubles and many quail on covey rise from pulling the front trigger twice. So hard it's a wonder I didn't break it. After quite a bit of practice with the 470 I found that to keep from doubling I had to shoot the rear trigger first so I switched to that on my shotgun and the it did improve the hits. In the interim I also bought other double rifles,a Geyger 8x60R,a Heym 375 H&H, which both had double triggers. After killing a nice elephant with the 470 I finally decided they (doubles)were more a romance item than a real hunting item and went back to single trigger bolt guns. Sold the Beretta and now all my guns are one again single trigger guns. In all my 60 years of shooting and handling guns I cannot even remember a trigger failing in the field on ANY gun and trap & skeet o/u's fire literally thousands of rounds with no trigger failures and I would say they are almost all single trigger guns. So as i said I personally think this is an exercise in futility as no one is going to convince anyone of the superiority of either system as it REALLY IS a personal preference thing. I will admit I have never been in a dangerous encounter with any animal but I HAVE been up close and personal with a couple of Elephants and in each case my firearm functioned perfectly. I can truthfully say in 8 rather extensive safaris I have had one failure of equipment and thatwas a failed leupold scope on a 375H&H. But then I suppose i am just lucky and the exception to the rule.

Never could understand this argument. I have shot tens of thousands of shotgun shells from single trigger over/unders with nary a hiccup. Why is it such a taboo to have a single trigger double rifle? Most take a backup rifle and can switch guns if a problem happens. While shooting all those shotgun shells, I had several bad primers that misfired not to mention the occasional squib load but no one worries about their ammo I had a couple Westley single triggers a few years back and they are really nice and fast to shoot. With double triggers I felt like I had two guns. One with too long LOP and one too short.
The days of the 6 month long elephant hunts are over and the modern guns are more durable. I'll take a single trigger 470 and be a happy camper.

The dead giveaway of the unreasonable nature of the double-trigger crowd is that they're not just satisfied with double triggers they have to badmouth single triggers.

I've forgotten a lot of hunting stories but the DT DR one that I remember is Taylor's 600 NE which kept on doubling on him. As I recollect his double was then used as a single shot.

Most of these DT DR's will be crapped out while the ST DR will still be going strong!

Prove me wrong!

quote:

With double triggers I felt like I had two guns. One with too long LOP and one too short.

Them are fighting words around here!!

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Most take a backup rifle and can switch guns if a problem happens.

Not much use after the ............ (insert Elephant, Buffalo, Lion, Hippo etc)
has stomped all over you or chewed you to pieces.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Most take a backup rifle and can switch guns if a problem happens.

Not much use after the ............ (insert Elephant, Buffalo, Lion, Hippo etc)
has stomped all over you or chewed you to pieces.

.

now it is guaranteed that you are gonna die sucker if you use a ST DR!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The dead giveaway of the unreasonable nature of the double-trigger crowd is that they're not just satisfied with double triggers they have to badmouth single triggers.

No Will, they only hang crap on ST DR to wind you up


LOL

.

quote:

Originally posted by scojac:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Two triggers equals two complete rifles, if one goes bad the other one still works..A single trigger rifle does not allow that. The option for a soft nose or solid is allowed with two triggers.

No single trigger RIFLES for me. Shotguns are Ok either way but I still prefer two triggers.

This question has interested me for quite a while. I've heard many arguments pro and con, but I've never heard this question addressed: Is the current crop of double rifles of such poor quality that you have to plan for a trigger to fail? I've shot rifles, shotguns, and handguns for over 45 years now and have yet to have a trigger fail. I've been considering purchasing a double rifle, but if they are so crappy that you have to assume that a trigger will break, perhaps I'm better off sticking with a bolt gun if my life is going to depend on it. So what is it, are doubles made so poorly that you can't count on them or is this a red herring?

I had a trigger fail on my CZ 550 in 416 Rigby on my first trip to Africa. Shot a Lion and Hippo and even went back to the range and shot it a few times. Then, when my Buffalo bull stepped out into the open, I pulled the trigger and "NOTHING". Totally disconnected. What would have happened if I had shot the Buff, it went into the thick stuff, and I only found out the trigger failed when the thing charged me?

So now you have heard of a trigger failing! Two triggers for me, thank you very much!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Two triggers equals two complete rifles, if one goes bad the other one still works..A single trigger rifle does not allow that. The option for a soft nose or solid is allowed with two triggers.

No single trigger RIFLES for me. Shotguns are Ok either way but I still prefer two triggers.

Ray,

Where do you get double triggers for your mausers?



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

Ray,

Where do you get double triggers for your mausers?



SSR

Double set triggers.


.

I don't know about other folks who prefer two triggers on their double guns, but I WAS NOT badmouthing single triggers.

As stated in my post above, I learned not to trust single triggers based on my experiences with Browning Superposed shotguns. They had a "recoil/inertia" activated mechanism to enable firing of the second barrel. That is, without the recoil of the first shot slapping the butt of the gun against a solid support, the trigger was not activated for the second shot.

We used to play a bit of a skeet game, where a shooter would walk toward station 8 from each of the other stations, while everyone jeered, cat-called, and generally tried to un-nerve the shooter. One of the other competitors would throw the birds when HE (not the shooter) wanted them to fly, and he would throw either a single or a double, timing it or them as he wished.

A favorite trick was to throw a double just as the shooter stepped into or out of a little ditch when ran across the layout. Or, if the shooter was walking toward station 8 from station 5, to throw the bird from the right hand house, so the shooter had to swing toward station one to powder it. Then, with a very small delay so that he was in mid-right to left swing, to throw the next bird from the left hand house...all this while the shooter had one foot in the air stepping into or out of the little shallow ditch.

Anyway, the thrower's object was to catch the shooter when he was least prepared for whatever he might see fly. The shooter, of course, wanted to break all the birds thrown.

So, how does that relate to one trigger vs. two triggers on a gun?

Well, it's kind of like facing a wounded dangerous animal...you don't know when the bird(s) is/are going to come or from which house(s) (location), but the object is to nail it or them. If your trigger misfunctions, you'll fail, and your score may well be ruined.

My Superposeds sometimes failed to fire the second barrel. Probably that is because the angles involved and the stance of the shooter (me) weren't such that the gun always recoiled firmly against my shoulder. So the trigger didn't "set" for the second shot and pull as I might on that single trigger, the gun wouldn't go off for the second bird.

That wouldn't happen with a mechanical single trigger which doesn't use recoil/inertia to set for the scond shot, but it never happened with ANY of my two trigger double shotguns either!

So, over time I came to prefer the two trigger rigs, and as I am used to them and my finger automatically goes to the second trigger for the second shot, I wouldn't want to change to a single trigger for a DG double rifle.

For a shotgunner who is used to single triggers and has faith in them, I'm sure a single trigger is the right thing for his DG rifle too.

It just isn't right for me.

Anyone, who knows me, will tell you I am not a fan of single triggers on a double rifle, and only rarely a double "set" trigger on a bolt or single shot rifle that is used for hunting anything more dangerous than a whitetail deer!

I get insults on regular basis because I don't like single triggers on a double rifle that is used to hunt dangerous game, and this post will likely be no different!

Having said that, I would say, anyway, that most big bore double rifles with single triggers are the mechanical type, and do not depend on the recoil of the first shot to set the tumbler for the second shot! The reason for that being, if the first pull is a dud, the second barrel will still fire, with the mechanical trigger, barring some other malfunction. Nonetheless I do not like a single trigger of any type on a double rifle. I would say that most, if not all, big bore doubles that are fitted with single triggers were ordered that way by the customer, not a general factory practice unless ordered that way.

The reason?????

Well I don't like any "single thing" on a double rifle that if it malfunctions puts the rifle out of service! Secondly, the single trigger that is not selective takes away the ability of the shooter to instantly select the barrel he wants to fire. That feature negates the loading of a soft in one barrel and a solid in the other and select which one he wants for the first shot on a bad boy!

I feel the same about “single set triggers” on a single barreled rifle that will be used for the hunting of dangerous game as well. All dangerous game rifle should be as simple as it is possible to make them! In the case of the DGR double rifle it should be made as TWO independent single shot rifles on the same stock. If one side malfunctions, you are, at least, left with a working single shot. If an item breaks that both barrels depend on, you are left with a 10 pound club to fight with! On double rifles made for the hunting of non-dangerous game such as deer then all that is lost with a malfunction is a shot at a deer. However, with a lion on his way to you for lunch….

quote:

The dead giveaway of the unreasonable nature of the double-trigger crowd is that they're not just satisfied with double triggers they have to badmouth single triggers

Will that's not true! We just badmouth the mental midgets who use ST double rifles.

double triggers one one of Bailey's rifles. he has a great setup on his triggers

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

The dead giveaway of the unreasonable nature of the double-trigger crowd is that they're not just satisfied with double triggers they have to badmouth single triggers

Will that's not true! We just badmouth the mental midgets who use ST double rifles.

Please, the PC term is mentally challenged. Our "special" shooters prefer single triggers, as the process of sliding a finger back to a second trigger tends to confound them. And you certainly don't want to risk creating a callus on the same finger that spends most of its time up one's nasal passage.

I understand that OSHA is going to start requiring double rifle makers to provide paddded hemlets with each single trigger double sold. And engraved lettering on the barrel bore: "This Side Toward Target".

I also hear that Verney Carron is going above and beyond those new requirements, by routing a drool cup into the cheek rests on all new single trigger doubles. Those guys are on the ball!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Please, the PC term is mentally challenged.

And for those Regulars on AR, the Non PC Term is Will


Sorry Will, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity !

.

At least they have a support system in place for these guys.

But excellent idea!

It obviously has a lift for Will's Wheelchair.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
At least they have a support system in place for these guys.

Is that the bus they take to and from work at the elephant hide wallet manufacturing facility?

The little people have spoken. Now who did you guys have to get to type it? Did you have to pay someone? A nurse? Your boyfriends?

Do small people form small circle jerks? Probably too much information, so do us all a favor and don't answer that.

Be interesting to know the cumulative level of dangerous game hunting experience that all the detractors of single trigger doubles have. Just say'in, it would be good to know what credibility to attach to all those opinions. I can respect opinions on both sides where those opinions come from folks with a basis to express their opinion. For example, go back and read Chapter XIII in Big Game and Big Game Rifles and see what Pondoro Taylor had to say about single trigger doubles. Or James Sutherland for another. On the other hand, the opinions of folks whose doubles make a semi-annual, if that often, trip to the shooting range should probably be ascribed a slightly different level of credibility.

MJ

I'm just having a go at Will in humour.
If people want to use a ST, so be it,
doesn't worry me.


As to DG, 150+ Buffalo.


Not sure what DG hunting exp has to do with it.
Shooting multiple DR and DR experience in general
in more useful in some ways.


.

Poor widdle Will got his feel feels hurt again.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Not sure what DG hunting exp has to do with it.
Shooting multiple DR and DR experience in general in more useful in some ways.

I don't buy that. Shooting a double at a piece of paper at 50 yards at the range is a far cry from shooting a double at an elephant or buffalo in the jesse at 25 yards. I tend to find the latter a little more stressful and stress can sometimes bring out faults and deficiencies that otherwise rarely exhibit themselves. But that is just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

I don't buy that. Shooting a double at a piece of paper at 50 yards at the range is a far cry from shooting a double at an elephant or buffalo in the jesse at 25 yards. I tend to find the latter a little more stressful and stress can sometimes bring out faults and deficiencies that otherwise rarely exhibit themselves. But that is just my opinion.

OK, valid point as I know the pucker factor comes into effect in the close stuff.

I still think having handled and shot multiple DR's also helps as people have the depth and breadth of experience to bring to the discussion.

.

If Will is more comfortable with a ST rifle then by all means he should use one. That does not however mean that ST is the cats meow. I have no intention of converting to a ST rifle ever but that's me I am confident, comfortable, competent and fluent in the use of my rifle.

I have never had an issue with two triggers and yes I have been in some tight spots hunting DG with a double in my hands. For those of you who don't have the resources to hunt Africa every year I highly recommend high volume free range spot and stalk and jump shooting of feral hogs. there is no better practice than shooting game in field conditions if you want to become one with your rifle.

How many triggers does your rifle have Mike?

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
For those of you who don't have the resources to hunt Africa every year I highly recommend high volume free range spot and stalk and jump shooting of feral hogs. there is no better practice than shooting game in field conditions if you want to become one with your rifle.

Totally agree.

Nothing like weighing into a mob of pigs to get into the groove.

We are lucky over here as we have other "mobs" of vermin (apart from pigs)
we can get stuck into.

.